ZPEnergy.com - More on water spliting and gasolone-water cars

An interesting discussion on the subject from Stefan Hartmann:
Okay, the movies of Dr. Linnard Griffin" are now at my site at: http://www.harti.com/griffin/
Just click to download and play them. I converted them to MPEG-4 Microsoft V2 and GSM6.10 audio codec, so the file size is now much lower.
Every PC from Windows 95B should have the codecs installed to play them with the installed Mediaplayers.

The water splitting reaction to drive the gocart is really a breakthrough I guess. I wonder what kind of iron is used there to split the water.

Anyway, enjoy the videos.

Best regards,
Stefan.

Subject: Re: water splitting catalyst movies uploaded !

As my server is in this moment down, there is another mirror of these files here:

http://66.79.191.43/~wwwgrae/img/galleries/videos/linnard/

Regards,
Stefan.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Hartmann"
To: "Dr. Linnard Griffin"

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 7:31 AM
Subject: Just a normal chemical reaction in the reactor and go cart video ?

Hi Linnard,

after watching several times your reactor and gocart video, and as you speak of on Iron reaction, I guess what we see here is iron powder in water being oxidized by the water O2 to rust Fe2O3 and this way the Hydrogen released ?

So this would be a classical chemical reaction, so the iron is consumed. Why do you say, it is a catalyst ? Or is the iron not consumed ?

You had stated earlier, that you have a 6 element alloy which splits water. Is this now something else? Anyway the videos are pretty nice, a bit unsharp but without further information pretty useless.

Can you make it please clear, that we just don´t only see a normal chemical reaction going on in the reactor and gocart video ?

Thanks.

Regards,
Stefan.
--------------
Message:
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 18:54:22 -0000
From: "mintowheel"
Subject: Re: water splitting movies uploaded !

Catalysts work by lowering the activation energy of a chemical reaction. But they do not change the net energy released or absorbed by the reaction. The splitting of water requires energy input (i.e. it is an "endothermic" reaction):

2 H2O + energy ---> 2 H2 + O2

[Stefan: Yes, what if he found a way to use the environmental heat via his catalyst to split up the water, and thus the solution gets much colder during the process? If it is a catalyst that can do that to reduce the heat temperature to room temperature and suck up the heat around it for this process, why not?]

The same amount of energy is released when the hydrogen and oxygen gas are recombined ("exothermic" reaction):

2 H2 + O2 ---> 2 H2O + energy

[Stefan: That is right, so we would have a environmental heat to process heat energy converter. This normally defies the so called "second law", which is not a law at all, but only an experience sentence... Now that somebody could have found a way to circumvent it with a catalyst, can the "2nd law" be broken this way?]

So if Linnard is splitting water without supplying any energy in the form or electricity or reactive metals, where is the energy coming from? From nowhere????

[Stefan: No, from cooling down the room and water temperature ! The gas production process is probably running cold ! Cools down the water a few degrees.]

The videos do not prove anything -- they are very easy to fake. They would not be admissible in a court of law. To verify his claim, we would need to inspect his magic "catalyst" alloy after the alleged water splitting reaction is complete. Either the alloy IS consumed by oxidation ("rusted") as the hydrogen gas (H2) is produced, or the alleged H2 product is a scam and is actually pumped in from an outside source.

Hold on to your money folks. After all, if Linnard has succeeded in violating the conservation of energy, then it should not be long before we can buy his magic "catalyst" at Walmart (if he manages to avoid suppression by the men-in-black/big-oil/grey-aliens status quo enforcement agents).

Leo C
--------------

Here is the original reactor of Dr. Linnard Griffin:

http://pages.tstar.net/~picker/Mvc-016s.jpg

He wrote about it at www.oupower.com:

"Sorry Willad, I have been very busy working and also working on this project. You noted there were no power leads (to the reactor), that is because it is a reactor and not a electrolyzer, I have had her up to about 50 gallons per min flow. As I said in a earlier post I ran across a strange reaction, which is new, between several metals. I am producing hydrogen with very little oxygen and I am not doing the aluminum POH thing. I filed my patent today, once it is issued, I will fill you'll in on what I have done. Keep the faith and keep on the right path. Chris is a great webmaster and is providing a great service for everyone.

Linnard"

Graeme from http://watercar.tk has some comments to the new videos:

In the video Al-Fe_electrolysis he is using low voltage electrolysis and reducing Fe304 to Fe and Al203 to Al in dilute sulphuric acid.

This video PbSn Shows some strange flashing lights inside a beaker. Difficult to tell from the quality of the video what is happening. From the name of the file I can only assume it is Lead (Pb) and Tin (Sn), not sure what the liquid is, I assume sulphuric acid.

I think fireworks_reaction may be the same experiment as PbSn but is giving a much more violent. May just be another configuration of the metals. He may be heating it on a hotplate!

70 lt per min water_splitting_reactor now your talking!!!! This should be more than enough to run my car.

And here it is a running internal combustion engine, even if it is only a go-cart. You've got to start somewhere.

Well done Linnard. Keep up the good work.

Daniel Dingle update This is an extract from an email I received from John M Mc Lean a few days ago.

"Hi Graeme,
I visited Daniel about 5 years ago , he uses 7 different metals melted together, he put this in an old battery box with the lid cut off, and a clear plastic lid on top. He gets 100 miles per quart. He is not a phony, but he won't get a patent here in the states, I can't figure out why not. He uses 12 volts one amp. as soon as he pours the water in it starts to bubble, I really think he is making heavy water. It goes from the battery box to a regulator, and then to the vacuum line of the carburettor, the car runs perfectly. He would not tell men all of the metals he is using, but he said that one of the metals is of volcano rock, maybe he was pulling my leg, I don't know for sure."

For those of you who are not familiar with the old imperial measures a "quart" is 2 pints not sure if it is a UK or US quart that is being referred to. If US then 1 quart = 0.962lt if it is a UK quart it = 1.1366lt. Using the US quart, at an average speed of say 38mph and assuming 1800lt of Hydroxy in 1lt of water this indicates that Daniel is producing 11.4lt per min. Again far more than xxxxxx and I are currently producing.

In light of the experiments I am currently carrying out and the information from Gary and Dave, the information on the "7 different metals" is most intriguing. It also puts some credence to what Linnard is doing.

50US Gallons = 189lt per min. This is a hell of a lot!!
------------
Message:
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 22:13:33 -0000
From: "mintowheel"
Subject: Re: water splitting movies uploaded !

Stefan,

I would love to see someone succeed at violating the 2nd law of thermodynamics, whether by a special water splitting catalyst or by any other method.

[Stefan: Hi Leo, check out:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/free-energy/files/second_law_violation.pdf

This is a clear violation of the second law on a bigger scale, if you use multiple elements like drawn out in the conclusion of this paper!]

But is this what Linnard claims? Does he say that he observed the water get colder during his alleged hydrogen production?? Or are you just presuming that he saw this? You had not previously mentioned anything about ambient heat supplying the needed energy (actually, I suggested that to you in the form of a skeptical question). And it was only after I pointed out that Linnard's claim implies a 1st law violation that you suggested this 2nd law violation as the energy source.

Actually, production of hydrogen by the thermolysis ("breaking by heat") of water is a known process, but requires very high temperatures, around 900°C:

http://hydrogen.anl.gov/pdfs/meeting_transportation_needs.pdf

The kinetic energy of ambient temperature water simply is much too low to supply the energy needed to split water, so it is not even a matter of lowering the activation energy (which is the ONLY thing catalysts do). Even if the activation energy was zero, ambient heat still could not split water. I was facetious when I suggested ambient heat as the energy source for Linnard's claim.

If I am wrong about Linnard's claim I will be happy to admit it, but videos on a web site do not count as empirical evidence, so the claim is unsubstantiated.

Please do find out whether Linnard claims to observe a temperature drop as you suggest.

[Stefan: I just asked him to measure his water temperature inside his reactor.]

Leo C.

---------

Message:
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 13:57:08 -0000
From: "mintowheel"
Subject: Researchers Offer Shortcut for Hydrogen Cars: Gasoline

Lately we have seen posts here debating the advantages of generating hydrogen gas (H2) by on-board steam-reformation of gasoline to power a automobiles. Why should this be more efficient than just burning the gasoline directly as we already do? Burning the hydrogen obtained this way in a combustion engine would not make much sense. But feeding that hydrogen into a fuel cell makes sense since fuel cells do a much more efficient job (around 80%) of converting chemical energy than do combustion engines (closer to 40%).

Of course all of this begs the question of how relying on gasoline as the original energy source brings us any closer to breaking our addiction to fossil fuels. But producing hydrogen gas from gasoline is a actualy a step towards that goal. By helping make automobile fuel cell technology more commonplace (and therefore also less expensive), we begin to build the infrastructure and experience that will serve us when we find a truly environmentally friendly way to produce hydrogen (e.g., fusion, solar, wind, tidal, geothermal, hydroelectric).

Please see the linked article below

Leo C.

////

Researchers Offer Shortcut for Hydrogen Cars: Gasoline

By Lee Dye ABCNEWS.com

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/SciTech/DyeHard/hydrogen_converters_dyehard_040506.html

=============
Message:
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:40:03 -0400
From: vcrepair
Subject: Re: Re: water-petrol car, fuel mileage conversion

Where was the automobile tested before and after?

Is there any certified automotive expert testing that shows 42% increase in fuel mileage for the same type of driving? Any dynamometer testing done?

What is the fuel mileage claimed now for that water & petrol car? What is normal fuel mileage?

[Stefan: You better call Graeme Jenkins on the phone number listed on the posted Webpage. I don´t know this information.]

*************************** vcrepair

OK, I looked at their website and found this http://www.meggala.com/watercar.htm

The Nissan SkyLine RB20E is a highbred petrol/gas/water car. The flat facts are:

1. The skyline achieves 5.22 liter per 100 kms highway running, which is approximately ½ what is normally required to power the vehicle.
2. We have reduced emissions up to 90% without a catalytic converter.
3. There is no drop off in performance.
4. It starts brilliantly when cold and is working perfectly within a minute.
5. The engine runs normally compared to gas/petrol.
6. The spark plugs are always immaculate, they never go dull or tarnish or foul.
7. Produces its own oxygen and appears not to suffer any altitude performance reduction.
8. Works on any portable water source.
9. The technology is transferable to diesel.
10. There appears to be no top end performance drop off.
11. The entire induction system uses standard automotive components.
12. Over 5 different patented features.
13. Works on standard engine platforms.
14. Independent emission, fuel and dynameters results available. Now given that you have read the above and you have found this site, we assume you have a degree of mechanical dexterity and you know like minded people who know others and so on.

**************************** vcrepair

The fuel mileage claim is 5.22 liters/100 kilometers with the modified Nissan Skyline RB20E sedan.

I'll try to look up that model to see if any fuel mileage estimates are available. I don't know if that model is sold in the United States of America.

In the USA we use "Miles Per Gallon", miles/gal, instead of liters/100 kilometers.

Since 1 gallon = 3.785 liters and 100 kilometers = 62.1 miles, the conversion of MPG to Liters/100 km is 3.785 * 62.1 = 235 so 235/MPG = Liters/100 KM or 235/(liters/100km) = MPG So 5.22 liters/100 kilometers = 235/5.22 = 45 Miles/gallon.

That is pretty good fuel mileage for a midsize sedan. Highway fuel mileage typical would be 30 MPG if lucky. I'll guess that fuel mileage figure is for the petrol or gasoline, need to have water also so 42/58% = .724 gallons of water for every gallon of gasoline.
5.22 liters * .724 = 3.78 liters = 1 gallon of water used per 100 km or 62.1 miles.

Paul Pantone and www.geet.com has been making similar claims in the USA for years.

Might need a water tank added to go with the gasoline tank. If gasoline tank holds 14 gallons, then you need to add .72 * 14 gallons = 10 gallons of water. I guess a couple 5 gallon water jugs will fit in the trunk. That would be 8.33 pounds per gallon * 10 = 83.3 pounds of water.

Or is the water mixed with the gasoline in same tank? But water separates from gasoline and settles to bottom of the tank since water has higher density than gasoline. We use "Dry Gas" or isopropyl alcohol or other alcohol to get rid of water in gasoline and help it burn. That's used when condensation or whatever has gotten some water in the gasoline tank and causes problems with engine running, usually in winter. The alcohol helps disperse the water so it can "burn" in the engine, instead of having to drain the fuel tank to flush it out.

Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann
Hartmann Multimedia Service www.harti.com
Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
email: harti@harti.com