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Solution to the Major Asymmetry Problem of Thermodynamics
Posted on Sunday, July 11, 2004 @ 23:13:19 GMT by vlad

Science Tony Craddock writes: A substantially updated and expanded version of Tom Bearden's Fact Sheet -
Leyton's Hierarchies of Symmetry: Solution to the Major Asymmetry Problem of Thermodynamics - has now been uploaded to the Website at:



http://www.cheniere.org/techpapers/Fact_Sheets/index.html


THE PROBLEM: THERMODYNAMICS HAS A TEMPORAL ASYMMETRY PROBLEM, RECOGNIZED FOR A CENTURY, BECAUSE THE SECOND LAW EXCLUDES NEGATIVE ENTROPY PROCESSES AND NATURE DOES NOT.

· Assuming some controlled available system energy to start with, the second law provides that, in subsequent interactions, the entropy S of a system can only remain the same or increase. Or, S ³ 0, once the subsequent interactions start.

· This says nothing at all about how the initial available excess system energy got there.

· The recognized major problem in thermodynamics arises from the present Second Law. As Price states {1}:

"A century or so ago, Ludwig Boltzmann and other physicists attempted to explain the temporal asymmetry of the second law of thermodynamics. …the hard-won lesson of that endeavor—a lesson still commonly misunderstood—was that the real puzzle of thermodynamics is not why entropy increases with time, but why it was ever so low in the first place."

· The real problem is: “Given the Second Law’s prohibition of negative entropy operations, how did the initial order (energy) get there in the first place, in any system?” This is simply the same “Problem with the Second Law”. As far as the present form of the Second Law is concerned, acquisition of the original energy could only have been “created from nothing”. Of course that violates the First Law, which states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

· This means that thermodynamics is presently self-inconsistent—which causes the “greatest problem in thermodynamics itself.”

· The problem particularly arises in prevailing notions of the origin of the universe, whether “big bang” or “steady whimper”. A great deal of organization and energy came from somewhere or somehow, in a relatively short time cosmologically, to initially generate enormous negative entropy {2} shortly after the beginning.

· If the energy of our observable universe somehow came from “outside” (thus saving energy conservation), then it represented “loss” of available energy (positive entropy) to that outside source, and “gain” of available energy (negative entropy) to our universe...

[The paper is also archived in our Downloads/ZPE_related section]

 
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"Solution to the Major Asymmetry Problem of Thermodynamics" | Login/Create an Account | 4 comments | Search Discussion
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Re: Solution to the Major Asymmetry Problem of Thermodynamics (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, July 11, 2004 @ 23:19:41 GMT
Makes sense to me! I have always wondered how any system could have energy if there was no violation of thermodynamics as they now stand, essentially the big bang would be the greatest violation ever.



Re: Solution to the Major Asymmetry Problem of Thermodynamics (Score: 1)
by ElectroDynaCat on Monday, July 12, 2004 @ 08:44:35 GMT
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Entropy is a concept that many people worry about unneccessarily.

First reason not to worry: Entropy is an intrinsic quantity, its the ratio of two quantities, one that is real (heat or energy) and the other is a statistical measurement (temperature). In itself, the concept of a running down Universe comes only from the way temperature and heat are defined.As long as heat is defined as flowing from a area of high temperature to an area of low temperature, the entropy of the system will always increase. Redefine a few things differently and one can program any scenario (or Universe) that you wish.

A second reason not to worry, entropy is pretty much is irrelevant at the quantum scale. Even Plancks use of of the concept of entropy in solving the BlackBody Spectrum Problem does not infer that entropy exists on the microscale.
What Planck had to do was find the most probable arrangement of oscillators at a given temperature, and that is where conceptually a great deal of fog has always shrouded the problem. Those oscillators in the cavity all had to have the same equal distribution of energy, if one looks at nhv, the total energy of the number of oscillators at a given frequency, they still add up to the equipartition energy of classical thermodynamics at the same wavelength. All the Second Law did in that case was provide the statistical basis for numbering the oscillators for a given frequency. It still refers back to our original definitions through S=k Log(w). So what Planck did was make one last incursion into the microscale using the Second Law, but only because he also had to include and define the problem in terms of temperature, which doesn't exist at the microscale.



 

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