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Tilley Foundation Whistleblower Intends to Stop Carl Cold|
Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 @ 00:57:05 GMT by vlad
By Sterling D. Allan/ Copyright © GreaterThings News Service/ January 27, 2003
"Carl Tilley didn't know who he was messing with when he brought Walter Webb into his scam operation that promised technology that could provide endless electrical output with no fuel input requirement. He was able to get Webb to believe his line, and Webb subsequently brought in multiple investors to the tune of $401,000. Seven months he had Webb believing the story." Read article at: greaterthings.com
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|Re: Tilley Foundation Whistleblower Intends to Stop Carl Cold (Score: 1)|
by SMHoke on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 @ 13:57:21 GMT
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.EcoLynx.com
|First, let me say that I cannot know with certainty that Tilley is a fraud, just as I cannot know that he isn't a fraud. I simply do not have enough credible, first hand information at my disposal.|
That said, I would be quick to add that I have long been very suspicious of this whole Tilley operation. My first clue that something was direly wrong was Tilley's evasiveness on the basic issue of what this supposedly new technology represents.
Take a look at a Tilley posting on this page entitled "Tilley Swift Star to be put to the test." I responded to that by asking a very simple straightforward question.
Specifically, I asked Tilley to tell us, even in the most general terms, what broad category this technology would fall under. Is it nuclear? Is this a fuel cell technology? Hybrid fuel? Zero point energy?
I am not a patent expert, but I have read extensively on the topic, and I certainly know enough about it to know that making a very broad, general public statement such as, "This technology represents a new and novel way to tap into the zero point energy field," could not possibly jeopardize any intellectual property rights, regardless of which phase of the patent process the inventor is in.
There are sharks in the water, and there are sure to be more soon. But having reviewed the large and growing body of peer-reviewed literature on this topic, and having carefully reviewed evidence being presented by the Disclosure Project, I know this technology is real. And I know it can change the world. The emergence of a snake oil salesman here and there does nothing to change that.
|Re: Tilley Foundation Whistleblower Intends to Stop Carl Cold (Score: 1)|
by vlad on Sunday, February 02, 2003 @ 18:55:26 GMT
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com
|Tilley Investors Asked to Be Taken for A Ride|
Claimant to hot technology that can produce endless power is driven by greed and picks up those of like passion along the way.
"For our purposes, we want to sell it, get our big bucks..."
-- Carl B. Tilley (view clip)*
See also: Index of Documentation of Tilley Fraud
By Sterling D. Allan
Copyright © GreaterThings News Service
Feb. 1, 2003
Since December of 2001, Carl Tilley has been gathering stockholders in a technology he claims to be his, but which he stole from another inventor, and for which he is seeking an outright sale for billions of dollars, because it is supposed to be able to provide endless power output with no input. The following article is another in a series exposing this fraud.
I just finished watching the entire unedited video tape recording (complete with family outings and Easter egg hunts) that Walter Webb sent me of various developments in the Tilley Foundation, from Jan. 2002 through the first stockholders meeting on May 4, 2002.
My opinion is that if people are going to line up behind this guy, Carl Tilley, considering some of the statements he made to them, they deserve to loose their money.
The guy admits to being in it for the money, and not for the betterment of humanity. He would even sell the technology to an entity that would shelve it and never bring it to market, as long as he got a good wad of cash in the transaction. He boasted as much in front of the stockholders in their first meeting, and they laughed and applauded at this admission (full statements below).
Based on that, it seems quite apparent that the people who have been attracted to Tilley share to at least some extent the same kind of unethical motivation. It wont hurt my feelings at all to see them tumble with Tilley when his scam is proven in a court of law -- a process that is currently under way. They all deserve what they got (thought many of them don't yet realize they've been taken for a ride, and not just in the electric DeLorean). Chances are, he will skip town before this happens, as he has done before in previous scams he has run, leaving them with the bag.
If there is any among them who has enough sense and courage, they should immediately gather together the evidence, take it before a judge, and get Tilley behind bars before he gets a chance to skip town this time.
Granted, some of the people that got sucked into this may have had a little more altruistic motives, and they were just flat out blind to Tilley's blatant attitude.
Before I cite the statement that most disgusted me, I need to set a context.
Early in the stockholder's meeting, almost right out of the gate, Tilley told those assembled that he had been given an offer to buy the technology outright for 2 billion dollars, "sight unseen." A little later, he added to that lie, saying that the Tilley Foundation had been given two weeks to respond to this offer.
After a few minutes, someone asked him who had made the offer, and he said, "GE" (General Electric).
Someone in the crowd wasn't quite buying the idea the GE would put up that much money "sight unseen," so they asked a question which spurred Tilley to amend his claim, explaining that GE has their sources and they have found out enough about the technology without having to have come officially in person.
Later on, someone asked Tilley if this guy from GE that he spoke with was in a position of authority such that he could speak on behalf of the company. Tilley responded that the guy was "not the CFO" (a military term), but that he was "pretty near the top." And then a little later he interjected that he has spoken with him three times.
I must stop and comment. I am not a trained professional in body language, but I must say that this guy's mannerisms probably would be prize material for a study in the mannerisms of a lying con artist. The lines/wrinkles in his face are probably classic portrayals for those who are able to read such and determine the person's personality traits and pressures in life. In the future, the video footage I watched tonight will probably be classroom material for those whose professional training in these areas. It might be labeled: "Classic facial lines and body movements of a con artist at work."
Back to the stockholder's meeting.
As the gravity of the 2 billion offer sank in, the overwhelming sentiment of the stockholders was, "Why do we even need to think about it. Let's pursue the offer. It's a no brainer." The return on their investment for that amount would be in the range of 2000-fold (estimate**). A $1,000 stock certificate would now be worth over one million dollars.
Tilley then began to explain that they could be missing out on a much larger offer that could yet come along. "The car alone is worth 10 billion," he said. He also spoke about a group from Brazil that was supposed to be coming in the next week or two to stay for 10 days; and that they were considering buying it for 5 billion, but he had upped it to 5.6 billion "because they made me mad," Tilley said.
Why did they do to make him mad?
They came all the way from Brazil in an earlier visit, saw a demonstration, did not want to believe Tilley's instruments and insisted on going and buying their own instruments. "That ticked me off," he said, "so I added 0.6 billion."
After getting their own instruments, and seeing a total of four hours of the demonstration, they looked at each other, realized that what they were seeing was not what Tilley claimed, and they went back to Brazil.
Well, in this May 4 stockholder's meeting, Tilley now says that the Brazilians are coming back; and this time, "we're asking for one third up before they even come in here -- in an escrow -- and if it does the ten day trial, we get that money. And then, before they see what's in the box, they give us the rest of it. And once that's done, and they give us the money, we'll show them what's in the box."
Can you believe that? He is expecting them to pay the full 5.6 billion before they even see the inner workings of the device.
Now catch this statement that comes next on the video tape: "The deal is: they don't get to look in the box, they don't get to test anything with meters, they just have to sit here and watch it run for 10 days."
What logically thinking person could possibly get behind a man who makes such ridiculous demands? What entity with billions of dollars is going to plunk down that kind of money without first rigorously testing the device?
Fine, put the money in escrow, payable upon the fulfillment of pre-determined criterion -- but to require them to pay before they see? Who is this guy?
But that is not the worst of it.
No wonder the Attorney, Zack Griffith, who is a shareholder and voted that day to be on the board (he was not the Corporate attorney), interjected two or three times during the course of the meeting: "This is a high risk venture. Either you can make a lot of money, or you could make nothing. You should not be investing in this if you cannot afford to loose your money."
Then came the time for the big demo: to switch the power over to run off the device. The switch was pulled, and the lights flashed on; then Walter Webb reminded Tilley that he needed to turn the machine on.
That is actually not a huge gaffe, because they all knew the device runs on batteries, and also supposedly keeps the batteries topped off. This technology was actually stolen from Robert Kibbey, but that is another story (pending).
The technology is actually very good, and enables far more efficient use of power; but it is not endless as Tilley claims.
But here is Tilley on the video footage, telling the shareholders that the device is capable of running the entire shop, or a home, endlessly. Yet just the week before he had been dragging an extension cord to the building to "top off" the batteries with a battery charger, using the power from his home, as witnessed in the open by co-founder Walter Webb, who for the time bought the excuse Tilley made the first time he was caught doing this.
Then came the statement that sent chills down my spine.
Tilley tells his stockholders: "I guarantee you, if GE gets it [buys the technology], you'll never see it on the market."
Another person immediately interjects, "Yea, they'll shelve it." (Playing on the idea that the huge existing corporations whose technology becomes obsolete because of such an invention, would seek to thwart it, even to the point of paying such a high price.)
I had to stop the tape, and play that again to make sure I heard it right. I played it again and again to make sure I had transcribed it correctly, while thinking to myself, "Why in the world would you even consider for a moment an offer from anyone if you believed they would shelve it?"
It reminds me of the story of King Solomon and the baby dispute. This technology is not Tilley's baby.
Compare that to the statement by Steven Greer on Coast to Coast radio Thursday night, Jan. 30, in which he was saying he would take a bullet before letting someone interfere with the technology, and there couldn't be enough zeros behind the dollar value to buy him out to shelve the technology he is involved with bringing forward, that he claims does produce endless power -- and I sincerely hope he is for real. Bravo for the Steven Greer's of the world. In comparison they make Tilley look all the darker.
After claiming GE would shelve the technology, Tilley then goes on to say: "At one time I was environmentally correct enough to say I'm not going to let that happen. Well, let me tell you something, when they start talking billions of dollars [intelligible(something about ethics, I presume)] can go to hell."
Immediately, the stockholders break out in laughter -- and what 's worse, they begin to applaud Tilley.
That was when I lost all sympathy for those stock holders. They are getting what they disserve by giving of their time and money to one such as Carl Tilley who is not just a liar and a thief, but who openly admits to having no compunction against buying out for money with no regard for humanity.
Shame, shame on them.
Tilley then said, "They can cut down all the trees they want."
I was getting sick to my stomach at this point.
Griffith then reiterated his caution about this being a risky venture.
Incidentally, no one took Tilley up on his offer to buy back their stock "by Friday" after the stockholders' meeting, the deadline that was set for anyone who might be having buyer's remorse. They were all seeing green, and it wasn't the environment green they had in mind. Before the meeting, there had been a great deal of malcontent because the materializing of a buyer of the technology had already been far delayed from what they had been told previously to expect.
Tilley's own words from earlier in the stockholders meeting drive the nail in these people's investment coffin. "We're not in the business of manufacturing and selling this stuff. We don't want to go out and build factories to build this junk."
He then realized the word he used and quickly added, "I mean it's a wonderful invention, I'm sorry."
"We don't want the liability, we don't need the liability. It's a headache."
He should be sorry.
He has stolen a very legitimate device that belongs to another inventor, who can prove his claim in it, and he has exaggerated its capabilities and bilked a bunch of suckers out of their money, having no regard for blessing humanity but only greedy after the idea of becoming filthy rich.
May the Tilley Foundation be known for what it is. It is a con job of the darkest hue, and the scam would not be possible if it were not for people who allowed such a man, with such openly malignant motivations, to lead them along.
Rather than end this article on that note, I would like to refer to a video clip from January 2002, mentioned at the beginning of this article. Tilley is addressing a group of potential stock purchasers, and he says, "For our purposes, we want to sell it, get our big bucks, go on to the car, and if we don't . . ."
At that point, someone interrupts from the onlookers in a loud and very distinct voice, as if in righteous rebuke, saying, "Go to the light."
It is really quite something. My guess would be that whoever said that did not buy stock.
That is my invitation to Carl Tilley and his stockholders.
Go to the light.
*I hope Walt Webb (who resigned from the board a month after the May 4 stockholders meeting), who provided me with this video footage, will be okay with me letting you see this one clip, though he requested that I hold back on all the clips until after a major interest comes forward with their story in a few days. I'll be contacting him tomorrow (it is too late at night now) to see if he is okay with this.
**Investment return estimate based on the following parameters (of which I am not expert in calculating)
$1,000 per share x 1000 [?] total shares = $1 million in stock value.
20% is supposed to stay with corporation, the rest going to stockholders.
The 1000 shares estimate is based on the fact that had Tilley given Webb the 100 shares he owed him, Tilley would have lost the controlling interest in the company because Webb had already brought in $401,000 worth of stock.
a.. Index of documentation of Tilley Fraud
b.. Video Clips
|Re: Tilley Foundation Whistleblower Intends to Stop Carl Cold (Score: 1)|
by vlad on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 @ 01:47:14 GMT
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com
|From KeelyNet list:|
Carl Tilley wrote:
Statement of the Tilley Foundation "In Response to Kibbey items Posted on Allen Web Site"
" Kibbey has been countersued by Mr. Tilley for lying about owning this technology. Mr. Kibbey and Mr. Tilley worked together years ago on wind turbine technology, and applied for a provisional patent, which has expired. The technology being developed and sold by the Tilley Foundation, Inc. is not based on wind turbine technology and has had no involvement by Robert Kibbey. We have filed our response and are eager to have the matter resolved once and for all.
Also interesting reading Jerry Decker's comments:
Hi Carl et al!
Don't know if you saw this, but for some strange reason he sent it to me
and Bruce Meland.
I wonder what this guy's 'trip' is that he would be SO PASSIONATE about
'exposing' you.....from his website I noticed he claimed to be on the
board of some company that fired him, so that might be what galls him so
badly to come after you so viciously. Here is the quote from one of his
Sterling D. Allan was fired from the free energy company on which he sat
on the board, and for which he was the primary public figure. The
firing came as a result of his continuing exposi of the Tilley
Foundation. They stated: "As a company, we cannot condone our primary
public spokesman being part of attacking a competitor, whether or not
the case is warranted. He was not acting in an official company
capacity when he undertook this exposi."
Which to my point of view means he has a hardon for you because he isn't
getting a piece of the action, therefore will bust a gut to do whatever
he can to discredit it.
Such an EXTENSIVE expose' page is very puzzling seeing as how he doesn't
go after Dennis Lee, Bruce Perrault, Don Smith or so many other con
artists as you can find detailed on pages SPECIFICIALLY FOR BUSTING
SCAMS as at;
and I found this page repeating his $10,000 offer for proof;
Krieg further stated that he has made the validation offer directly to
Tilley's associate, Doug Littlefield, through an exchange of e-mail
correspondence, and also has made the offer directly to Carl Tilley at a
Web-based discussion board. To this point, Tilley has not officially
accepted Krieg's offer, and Krieg is not surprised. "I've been through
such negotiations with many other claimants. So far, people have always
'All things to all people indeed'....if such people cannot state WHAT
their site is FOR and STICK WITH IT, then they surely don't need to be
commenting, instigating or sensationalizing subjects which don't fall
under their raison d'jtre (reason for being).
And as I noted early on, this character appears OUT OF THE BLUE and
right off the bat jumps all over the 'Tilley craze', first supporting it
to drag attention to his site, now slamming it and doing everything to
To my point of view;
1) 'you know who' is in it SOLELY for notoriety, to promote his
religious beliefs and to make bucks for himself by advertising and using
alternative energy technology and sensationalism to drag people to his
site. He doesn't give a flip about the technology or how it can help
the world, he also seems to wallow in digging up dirt, almost completely
oblivious to the technology which this all revolves around.
2) Until your spinner and battery arrangement is tested by an
independent lab who can verify or refute the claims, the discussions and
fighting will go on and on
3) I have no proof that your device works as claimed, nor does anyone
else I am aware of, that is not a good thing, that you have no outside
verification which the independent tests would provide.
4) The technology is ALL THAT MATTERS here, not trying to dig up dirt
in someones past, very simply - a claim was made, it has to be proven
independently, PERIOD. If it can't or won't, then people will look to
history and records of prior scams or deceptions as is going on now.
Very easy FOR YOU to resolve, just let someone with major credibility or
some independent group prove it.
5) If legal action is actually being undertaken, something needs to
happen, like a trackable injunction against Kibbey, you know who, etc.
who are claiming fraud or slandering/libeling you;
slander - ORAL communication of false statements injurious to a person's
libel - A false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures,
that damages a person's reputation or the act of presenting such
material to the public.
If it IS truly intentional fraud, nothing legal will ever happen from
Carl Tilley or the Tilley group.
However, if the claims about this system are true and you will stand by
it in court with incontestable PROOF as tested by peers or judged by a
(like with batteries that run a load that runs down over say one or two
days, then hook up your spinner and show to the court that the load runs
either FAR LONGER with the spinner, maybe 3-10 times longer, or NEVER
then you will win your court case hands down.
I have been the target of 3 such threats of legal action (some repeat
but none actually DO IT) when I publicly challenged the claims of people
saying they had overunity devices (or making bogus unproven claims) that
worked AND/or were actively SELLING plans that would allow building a
working free energy/overunity device (taking money fraudulently).
These people sent me emails and even certified, registered mail with
their threats and made a big deal of their threats on the internet (the
letters by the way were generated by themselves, NOT A LAWYER OR LEGAL
I told them have YOUR LAWYERS send me the papers and MY LAWYERS will
respond in kind....that I would LOVE to get them in court to prove their
machines or claims and when they failed, I WOULD COUNTERSUE for
everything I could get.
Every single person has backed down from their threats because they KNOW
in a court of law, they WILL FAIL to prove their claims of a working
overunity device and I will own their asses!
So please FILE SOME PAPERS to show there really is legal action going on
to stop all this mess, otherwise it will look like you are just
blustering and these guys will continue to pyramid and skew it far
beyond THE TECHNOLOGY, which to my view, is ALL THAT MATTERS.
I still have no proof the thing works as you claim since the statements
made are on your website.
Someone like Gene Mallove and his group are in a perfect position to
test the car or the building power system UNDER LOAD, with unfailing
observation and measurement to verify the truth of what you claim.
Such a test would without doubt shut everyone up and you would then be
'good as gold' because of this NOW PROVEN independent verification with
the posting of their observations and test results.
None of this will END WELL UNTIL such independent tests are done. And I
suspect Gene would give his eyeteeth to have the chance to prove (or
disprove) the Tilley claims.
I know many are puzzled by my 'apparent' support of your claims. That
isn't the case at all since I HAVE NO PROOF that your machine works. I
detest sensationalism, muckraking and people misrepresenting themselves
to promote their 'hidden agendas'.
What, for me, is different in this case, I (and others) saw your
workshop, met you, Doug and some of your associates, was allowed to take
photos/videos and ask questions, openly and without requiring a
non-disclosure, BUT did not see, measure or test either the car or the
building power system to verify it is what you claim.
This openness surprised me and gave the impression that 'we have nothing
hide' EXCEPT what is inside the sealed aluminum box which some of us
call 'the spinner'.
In addition, there do appear to be 'correlations' to the Bedini and
Wilson machines as on the pages I posted at;
that give the appearance, to my view at least, that the POSSIBILITY
EXISTS that you really might have what you claim, POSSIBLY using a
flywheel and supermagnet generator system that just COULD put out more
energy than it takes to run.
Like some folks say, 'I want to believe'...but at this point, its far
from proven OR unproven and I'm hoping you will take the steps to setup
an independent test that can have only two results;
IT works, it does self-recharge while running loads and the lab/group
will stand by their POSTED TESTS...
IT DOESN'T WORK, posted tests showing the arrangement, load, power in vs
power out and the gradual loss of battery power as drained by the load.
If you are completely confident and really want to see all this end,
then the independent test is not an option, but a NECESSITY!
The claim that the car ran 102 miles WITH the spinner (TEV) unit
attached to keep the batteries recharged versus running the car only 10
miles WITHOUT the spinner is what got my attention.
Unfortunately, it is simply a line posted on your webpage and there is
no independent verification that it is TRUE, no matter how intriguing it
At this point, I and I'm sure many others, remain unconvinced either
way, some flat out think its a con/scam,
others who are more fair minded will discount all the sensationalism
promoted by promotional websites, who are oblivious to looking for
technology and ways to HELP THE WORLD....
and reserve drawing fixed conclusions until a real test has been done
and verified by testing from credible independent sources.
If you truly have nothing to hide, then indendepent tests are the ONLY
WAY to get all this mess in control, restore your credibility against
the sensationalizers and restore some degree of faith that the
TECHNOLOGY works as claimed.