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    Genesis Edison Device Available for Tour
    Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 @ 10:52:36 GMT by rob

    Devices technophile writes: Genesis says it is making its original Edison prototype available for schools to examine. They don't say anything about testing. They also promise new photos of their other technologies soon.



    Edison Device Demonstrations
    The Genesis Team has decided to share the excitement of science and discovery with students ranging from junior high school through college by sending the original Edison Device shown in the photographs on this web site on tour to schools and universities throughout the United States. If you are a student, teacher or administrator that is interested sharing this experience with your school, please use the Contact Us form to express interest.

    Edison, HICEF And iGas Photos
    Although photos of the the original Edison Device were released a year ago on this website, GWE continues to receive many requests to see the system. The link above will take you to detailed photographs of the exterior and interior of the original Edison Device. Photos of HICEF and iGas are being prepared for web release and will be available soon.

    http://www.genesisenergysystems.com/newsroom.htm


     
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    "Genesis Edison Device Available for Tour" | Login/Create an Account | 19 comments | Search Discussion
    The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.

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    Re: Genesis Edison Device Available for Tour (Score: 1)
    by Gordo on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 @ 13:02:28 GMT
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    I can't believe there are still idiots that believe Genesis World Energy is more than just a two bit fraud! The sucker class will never get it.


    Genesis World Energy Fraud



    Re: Genesis Edison Device Available for Tour (Score: 1)
    by baldy on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 @ 16:15:29 GMT
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    Perhaps I need to get it in a vernacular that yu can comprehend Is yu the suckor or the suckee. If yu de man y don you stan up and show yur tru credanshals instad of hide behin yo mamas skurt! This is too yo Gorden!


    ]


    Re: Genesis Edison Device Available for Tour (Score: 1)
    by Gordo on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 @ 21:07:00 GMT
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    Sorry -- I forgot to mention I am the Man in Black who is secretly squashing ALL attempts everywhere at free energy. I deliberately sabotage labs when they are getting too close!!

    :)

    Hahah, you guys crack me up! Want to invest in my new revolutionary energy startup?


    ]


    Genesis Edison Device Available for Tour (Score: 1)
    by bodebliss on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 @ 23:02:34 GMT
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://picoscience.8m.com/
    Could you let on that you'd give us all the details ,but then you'd have to kill us.

    Or...

    you could collect lots of money, put some equipment in a old barn ,then trash the place , set fire to it, and say the gov't did it and told you not to try again, or else.


    ]


    Re: Genesis Edison Device Available for Tour (Score: 1)
    by Gordo on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 @ 21:22:18 GMT
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    Out of fairness and objectivity, I think anyone with a personal or financial relationship to companies discussed here (such as GWE or its partner companies) should disclose that information when posting articles or commentary related to those companies.

    I've already disclosed that I am the Man in Black who destroys free energy projects before they can succeed, right before investors reap their fortunes on the promised miraculous technological breakthroughs. That means I cannot be trusted, and everything I say should be taken with a grain of salt, examined, researched, and questioned.




    ]


    Objectivity; disclosure; Man in Black (Score: 1)
    by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 @ 22:10:28 GMT
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com
    For me, Johnny Cash will always be the Man in Black.

    They are wont to disclose it, but nearly all the boosters have a personal or financial connection to GWE. Mostly, they are past victims, but some are would-be victims. Baldy is alone in his forthrightness.

    But his honesty goes only so far. He's honest with us, but not with himself. Baldy has never asked Nejhla Shaw what's her relationship to patrick Kelly, because he does not want to hear the answer.


    ]


    Re: Genesis Edison Device Available for Tour (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 @ 19:13:17 GMT
    Maybe if you used an ounce of proper english, people might accually care about what you have to say!!!


    ]


    Re: Genesis Edison Device Available for Tour (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 @ 17:30:48 GMT
    Funny.. no mention of an on going investigation by the State of New Jersey.


    ]


    Re: Genesis Edison Device Available for Tour (Score: 1)
    by Technophile on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 @ 07:35:15 GMT
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    The naysayers here miss the point. This is a chance to get the Edison Device delivered to a University near you where you can test it yourselves.


    ]


    Re: Believe it when I see it. (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 @ 07:54:09 GMT
    I will believe it when the first school reports that it received the edison device. Alot of things GWE has said has not come to fruition yet. Their track record is working against them in my eyes.


    ]


    Yeah but ... (Score: 1)
    by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 @ 10:21:52 GMT
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com
    We ought to make an effort to get some schools prepped to play a competent role in the tour. It's a tough time to get anything going at school, since it's almost summer. Maybe this is just a ploy to get people to wait till fall. It takes a special touch to take a perpetual machine show on the road. Joe Newman and Dennis Lee can openly plug their motors into an outside power source and then go on about how they are powered by some previously untapped forces. But not a lot of people have the gifts that Newman and Lee have.

    Why try to take it schools right before summer? Erik Krieg would make time for it right now. Why keep turning him down?

    On another note. Who is spinning the code there these days? Just look at this mess. (Remember to sed "s: since I didn't want to include the tags as tags here. )

    [a href="gwe_edison_price.htm"]
    [font color="#00325D"]
    [span style="text-decoration: none"]E[/span]
    [/font]
    [/a]
    [font color="#00325D"]
    [span style="text-decoration: none"]dison
    Device Demonstrations[/span]
    [/font][/span][br]


    ]


    Fraud (Score: 1)
    by Gordo on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 @ 21:12:53 GMT
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    http://www.greaterthings.com/News/FreeEnergy/Directory/Hydrogen/Genesis/fraud/NJ_attorneygeneral/PR031209.htm

    Genesis World Energy (GWE) claims to have a revolutionary technology that will "[harness] an unlimited source of energy from the molecular structure of water." Scientists such as Bob Park of the American Physical Society question the claim, and now Attorney Generals are investigating the securities of the company, who receives stock through a sister company, United Fuel Cell Technologies (UFCT).

    Just over one year ago, GWE held a press conference in Boise, Idaho in which they claimed that their "technology breakthrough utilizes a fuel cell that consumes nothing but water to generate energy. Using the amount of water an ordinary bathtub can hold, this fuel cell unit will produce enough energy to last a household more than 20 years. The unit produces no byproducts. No residential retrofits are required — the unit uses existing electrical wiring and natural gas plumbing. The unit has no moving parts and is silent." (Idaho Statesman; Dec. 6, 2002)

    They claim that their home power generator will cost approximately $3,000; and that their commercial unit will cost $9,000.

    Potential licensors and investors have lined up to be part of this seeming unprecedented opportunity. The GWE website (genesisworldenergy.org) claims that they are ready to go in 140 nations.

    Just what the device can or cannot do is yet to be determined, though the evidence points to it being a technology modified from a fuel cell device available for purchase at http://www.hammacher.com/publish/64680.asp; and that it will not perform anything near the level being claimed by Genesis World Energy (GWE).

    Early on, John Lichtenstein, a watchdog in the alternative energy field, saw things about the GWE claims that smelled to him like a con job, so he began a private investigation into the claims and the affairs of GWE. (http://members.cox.net/john.lichtenstein/)

    Lichtenstein reports that the UFCT filed an application for corporation registration in Sept. of 2001, but they never paid the franchise taxes, or the application fee. He also notes that they never registered their shares, even though there are more than 100 investors according to investor reports. GWE was registered two years later in Sept. 2003.

    GWE did not confirm or deny a report Lichtenstein published in Feb. 2003 that stock had been sold in GWE's Edison Device under the name of UFCT by Pat Kelly.

    Lichtenstein's concerns reached the ears of Dean Kuehnen, who is an Investigator with the Attorney General's office in New Jersey. Kuehnen's primary target of investigation is NJ resident, Patrick Kelly, who is the purported inventor as well as de facto founder and director of UFCT and GWE.

    Kuehnen, says they have enough information now to begin "tightening the screws" on Kelly and his cohorts. New Jersey is not the only state investigating GWE. Kuehnen is not at liberty to divulge what other states are involved.

    Their main charge in the investigation is not functionality but securities. Kuehnen is confident that he has a strong case of securities fraud, and plans to turn the case over to "a mean criminal justice."

    "I'm not concerned whether or not the technology works," says Kuehnen. "If it works, I'll buy one. What I'm concerned about is the investors."

    A potential licensee who requested that his identity not be revealed, who has not yet seen the technology, but who is poised for a significant marketing interest, says that GWE does not expect any transfer of funds until after the potential licensee has seen the technology and has been able to test it in an independent laboratory. He thinks Kuehnen is "trolling for information" against GWE but that GWE is too well established internationally at this point to be stopped.

    Kuehnen sees this this as a probable slight-of-hand tactic of GWE, designed to create an illusion of respectable science and business on the one hand, while waiting for people to line up as investors on the other.

    The potential licensee says GWE has explained to his satisfaction the need to raise $20 billion to finance the world-wide distribution of this technology.

    The near air-tight non-disclosure agreement (NDA) of GWE keeps most involved parties zip-lipped, making the investigation more difficult. However, enough people have become sufficiently concerned about inconsistencies they have seen that they have voluntarily stepped forward with their testimonies.

    Those who have requested a refund of their money have been put off with delays and excuses. In some cases their request is denied with the claim that they breached their NDA.

    Alternative energy enthusiasts are nonplussed by charges of breach of lawful business conduct, for most of them are empathetic with "how difficult it is to dot every I and cross every T" of the "convoluted legal requirements." They are more concerned about bogus technology being passed off as genuine when it is in fact a scam. "It gives the whole field a black eye, making it all the more difficult for legitimate research to see the light of day."

    According to Kuehnen, there are basically two devices that GWE shows to those who have signed their NDA, and who are investigating the technology to become involved either with a license or investing. One is a larger device, fully enclosed.



    The other is a smaller device with a fan attached to demonstrate output power.

    According to the witnesses reporting to Kuehnen, the smaller device bears a near identical resemblance to a device sold at http://www.hammacher.com/publish/64680.asp


    "That is what we saw."

    Those who have seen the smaller of the GWE devices and then see the Hammacher Schlemmer (HS) device vouch that it is the same thing except the HS device turns a wheel, while the GWE device has been modified to turn a fan.

    This device is routinely shown to GWE interested parties bound under NDE as a bench-top proof of concept. "They'll let it run for 15 minutes, and the people watching will think, They're onto something."

    The other device that is shown is the larger unit. Kuehnen does not know of any witnesses that have seen it in operation with the lid off. Instead, the reports he heard is that GWE personnel refuse to let people peek inside.

    Lichtenstein says there is a person, "Anthony Marchetti" (not true identity) who has claimed to see inside while the unit is running, and has posted this assertion to the ZPEnergy.com site.

    Those who have spoken with Kuehnen say that most of the time, GWE gives excuses as to why this larger device can't be shown, including: "It fell off the plane;" "It got lost in the mail;" "A part broke off it and needs to be repaired;" "It shorted out."

    Kuehnen wonders if the inner workings of this unit that are shown in photographs could have been pulled together for the sake of a photo, and that they are not actually a functional part of the purported technology.



    Others find it hard to believe that something so well presented could be fraudulent. The potential licensee replied, "They do give a public peek inside (photo), and they do try to explain how the technology works, and those explanations are nominally in harmony with other patented or published works."

    The physicists with whom Kuenen has conferred do not agree that the explanations given by GWE are sound.

    Alternative energy enthusiasts are not deterred by such professional skepticism, recalling that scientists in the days of the Wright Brothers said man could not create a flying contraption.

    An explanation they have a harder time dismissing is one in which each of the components is analyzed from a point of view of what would be required to accomplish what GWE claims. Reviewing the photos, Stephen Zorbas says that there should be very thick wire for the DC and there is none visible; there should be "test past" stickers on the fuel cells and there are not; the tubing is not the grade of tubing you would need for Hydrogen gas.

    Lichtenstein observed that GWE's claim that hydrogen gas could be run in existing home gas plumbing betrays a fundamental flaw in the GWE engineer's understandings, for hydrogen gas corrodes regular gas plumbing.

    The GWE home page asserts that "every major automobile manufacturer in the world requested licenses to equip new cars, trucks, SUV's, and mass transit vehicles" with the GWE technology.

    Kuenen has contacted Honda, IBM, and HP, all of which GWE claims to have brokered relationships or potential relationships, and they all say they have not heard of Kelly nor of GWE.

    "There are not 400 scientists" behind the development of GWE, says Kuehnen, though not able to specify how he knows that. A mention of a phone tap prior to that statement provides some possibilities.

    Kuenen has much more about GWE, but he is not at liberty to divulge that at this time. "The legal process takes time. [Often], by the time we get to them the money is gone," said Kuehnen.

    He is anxious to have additional witnesses step forward, and on December 4 posted a statement soliciting such at an Internet discussion forum. (http://www.h2eco.org/wwwboard/messages/2426.htm)

    Regarding the contention that witnesses will be difficult to attain because of the tight NDA they have with GWE, Kuehnen replied, "when a technology is under official investigation, the non-disclosure agreement is null and void." He could not recall from from memory specific reference to a law that supports that statement.

    The potential GWE licensee said he had a friend with a working technology that he personally witnessed that "was targeted by the attorney general's offices of nearly all 50 states," and that "securities and exchange violations are a very common way to shut down" technologies that have the potential of unseating some of the most powerful people and companies on the planet. His associate was able to proceed notwithstanding the opposition he received. "I don't think Genesis World Energy will be able to be proven a fraud," he said.

    He is undeterred by the fact that he was supposed to have seen a demo in July 2003, and has not yet seen that demo four months later.

    -- SDA




    Scam (Score: 1)
    by Gordo on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 @ 21:15:48 GMT
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    http://members.cox.net/john.lichtenstein/

    On December 5, 2002, a company called Genesis World Energy (hereafter GWE) announced the "Edison Device", a "miracle" which they claim is a source of energy that will eliminate the world's dependence on traditional energy sources. A week later, Bob Park's column announced it as a scam. A month later, Professor Park returned to the story.

    So, what is it, a miracle, a scam, or a misunderstanding? The information released by GWE is short on detail. The biographies of the principals are not provided. The business structure is opaque. And the operation of the Edison Device is described inconsistently. I hope to clarify the GWE story, posting links to press coverage, analysis and other information on GWE. The articles on this page are also on my slashdot journal, where reader comments can be placed. If you have information you would like to share, please email me or write a comment in the journal.

    Almost immediately, GWE was criticised for three things, making a claim of "perpetual motion" without any supporting evidence, incompetent use of technical terms (watts and watts per day of energy), and an opaque business structure. I detail some of the odd language in an open letter to GWE, which has resulted in no response or edits to their site. They did respond to the criticsms of the perpetual motion claim, with a denial that they make any such claim. But none of their original claims were removed, so they now claim both that they have a miracle that defies conventional physics by using water and only water as a fuel, and that they use secret chemicals as their fuel, a confusion I detail in "Fuels and Filters" below.

    GWE has recieved a good deal of other coverage. A brief summary can be found in my FAQ. Eric Krieg has started to cover the story and has offered a $10k prize for a successful test of the device.


    How Genesis World Energy Brings in Money
    Summary: While Genesis World Energy claims to own the Edison device, and that they are not seeking investment, their principal inventor, Patrick Kelly, claims that United Fuel Cell Technologies owns the Edison device, and he's been selling stock in UFCT.

    Thirty Gallons of Water
    Summary: The March 6 Q&A from Genesis World Energy states that the Edison device water filters are used only to filter water input to the system. This might be a retort to our pointing out that the composition of the "catalytic reactants" is impossible to keep secret, as the spent chemicals will wind up in the water filters. If GWE really plans on filtering water only as it's input to the system, not as it cycles through, they need a trip to the drawing board.

    Over the Top Revenue Estimates
    Summary: Around 2003-02-27, Genesis World Energy posted updates to its page, including pictures of (part of) an Edison device, a broadcast of some deadlines for license proposals, a pre-announcement that they will make another announcement in March, and a statement that they have entered into commitments to supply a minimum of one million units per day in 2004, and two million per day in 2005. Today we focus on the million unit per day supply commitments, which are over the top.

    Hydrogen as a substitute for gas or propane
    Summary: GWE's discussion of using hydrogen as a substitute for gas in a home plumbing system is so poorly thought out, it's hard to believe they intend for an Edison unit ever to be hooked up to a home. There are three differences between hydrogen and gas that must be addressed in any conversion: hydrogen attack of plumbing, flame detection, and leak detection. GWE mentions only the last issue, which they treat unseriously.

    Fuels and Filters
    Summary: On December 17, GWE added to it's webpage a denial that they make claim perpetual motion. The page is still riddled with references to water as a fuel, and miracles that defy conventional physics. Essentially, they have added a claim "but this is not perpetual motion" to a list of perpetual motion claims. But all the mystery could be cleared up if GWE would just simply state what their fuel is, something that's impossible to keep secret.

    GWE's Use of Non-standard Units
    Summary: Here we discuss GWE's claims about the power produced by their Edison Device, without any discussion of the theory behind where the power comes from, which we discuss elsewhere. The GWE website is so riddled with non-standard units, confusion between measures of power and measures of energy, and plain nonsense claims that one has to suppose that nobody with a basic education in electronics has proof-read the page.

    How to Guide for Free Energy Con Men
    Summary: Eric Krieg has studied Free Energy scams for years, here he offers words of advice on running one. Funny and not funny at the same time.




    Re: Gordo sure can type!! (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 @ 23:57:04 GMT
    Gordo sure can type a bunch of stuff...he's almost as good as the folks at GWE....they are good typers too!!!


    ]


    Re: Genesis Edison Device Available for Tour (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 @ 10:27:37 GMT
    We could run the world for a year with all the hot air they're pushing.



    Re: Genesis Edison Device Available for Tour (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, May 13, 2004 @ 11:55:11 GMT
    It looks like there are updates on the Home page of GWE, but when you click on the links there are no corresponding paragraphs of news.


    ]


    changes to front page (Score: 1)
    by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, May 13, 2004 @ 13:04:02 GMT
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com
    I skip the splash screen so I didn't see it. Thanks. I guess they are still keeping the cloaking device a secret. So now they say
    Manufacturers in over 150 nations supplying world with Edison.

    I'll check Lowes on the way home. Also
    Major vehicle manufacturers move forward to equip new cars, trucks, SUVs and mass transit vehicles with HICEF.
    I'm sure they will have an article full of quotes from spokespeople at the auto makers just as soon as they fix the links. Also
    iGas and HICEF greeted by acceptance within a wide range of consumer products.
    Can someone else run out to Target at lunch? Buy one of the HICEF powered applicnaces for sale there and let us know what you think.

    The code over there is such a mess. How do they come up with this stuff?

    {a href="newsroom.htm"}
    {font color="#00325D"}
    {b}
    {span style="text-decoration: none"}
    Manufacturers in o
    {/span}{/b}{/font}{/a}
    {font color="#003366"}
    {b}
    {span style="text-decoration: none"}
    {a href="newsroom.htm"}
    {font color="#00325D"}
    {span style="text-decoration: none"}
    ver


    ]


    Genesis products already on market! (Score: 1)
    by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, May 13, 2004 @ 17:53:21 GMT
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com
    I suppose I'll be eating crow.

    Well they have been saying for months that they have been in production since 2003-08-19. Now I see they are saying
    Some manufacturers target having systems available to consumers in the first quarter of 2004.
    So some folks here must have already bought some. How are they holding up? Which color did you get? If Lowes has white adobe ones in stock, I'll buy one tonight.

    They must be rolling in dough. Paid their taxes. (DE and NV both seem confused about this, someone oughta tell those two to those taxes were paid.) They must have paid their old bills. Paid that dividend. Funded the Angel scholarships. (Don't know why we missed the announcement on those.) The investors must have all retired by now. The housing market in Boise must be through the roof as all those folks get jobs there.

    For the licensees, some reading material:
    http://www.airwatercorp.com/products.asp

    And for everyone:
    http://www.noblesoul.com/orc/books/rand/atlas/




    ]


    Genesis Edison Device Tour venues change (Score: 1)
    by TilEulenspiegel on Thursday, December 29, 2005 @ 22:42:59 GMT
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com/
    I know some schools contacted GWE to see the tour but did not hear back from them. I guess Genesis was too busy building their millions of units a day for their trillion dollars of backordered pipeline. What would be cool is if they would take the device on a tour of state and federal detention and correctional facilities. They can't be too busy now. 



     

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