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We Won! Game over ; Electric cars face battery of hurdles
Posted on Saturday, February 23, 2008 @ 12:50:57 UTC by vlad

Devices Extract from the EV World Insider Commentary (21 Jan 2008): We Won! Game over.

The struggle to convince a skeptical industry... and world... that electric drive vehicles are not only technologically viable, but the planet's only hope in the face to rising oil demand, static petroleum production and concerns over the environmental impact of rising CO2 levels... officially ended on January 13, 2008.

It happened in Cobo Hall in downtown Detroit when the Co-Chairman and CEO of General Motors announced to a stunned media that the world cannot produce enough oil to meet rising demand -- a phenomenon known as "peak oil". [See relevant excerpts from Rick Wagoner's speech below].



The impact of Wagoner's remarks at the opening of the 2008 North American International Auto Show (NAIAS) carried around the planet. Down in Australia, the Sydney Morning Herald carried the following headline on January 15, 2008: "Time's up for petrol cars, says GM chief."

The article opens with, "The world's biggest car maker, General Motors, believes global oil supply has peaked and a switch to electric cars is inevitable."

That statement got my attention... in a hurry, especially after I got a call from a Sydney radio station who wanted to talk to me about Wagoner's remarks. More on that call later.

The Speech That Shook the World

For GM, the answer to this converging crisis is two-fold: more and better electric-drive vehicles from two-mode hybrids to plug-ins to E-Flex extended range electric cars, and greater reliance on ethanol. The company announced it will offer 8 hybrid models in 2008 and many more in succeeding years. It also announced an investment in a new bio-waste ethanol process with an energy ratio of 1:7 That means that for every unit of energy input, the process produces 7 additional units.

Here are the EV world-relevant parts of Wagoner's landmark address...

Good morning. . . welcome to the start of the 2008 auto show season.

You know, similar to our opening act this morning, the auto industry has a lot of balls in the air right now when it comes to the future of automotive propulsion, and for very good reason. Earlier this month, the price of oil hit a hundred-dollars-a-barrel, as demand for energy around the world is growing faster than supply.

And that's not just a cyclical phenomenon. . . it's structural, given the growth in emerging economies, which we fully expect to continue.

Here's an amazing statistic: on a global basis, to satisfy all energy needs, we're consuming roughly 1,000 barrels of oil every single second. . . and the rate of consumption continues to grow. In fact, according to the U.S. Department of Energy, the world will need about 70 percent more energy in 2030 than it did in 2004.

Now, when you consider these facts in light of the world's heavy reliance on oil for automotive transportation. . . in the U.S. , for example, 96 percent reliance on oil. . . we have to ask ourselves. . . what does all this mean for the global auto industry? For us at GM, the answer is perfectly clear. As a business necessity, and an obligation to society. . . we need to develop alternative sources of propulsion. . . based on diverse sources of energy. . . to meet the world's growing demand for our products.

[EDITED]

So, are electrically driven vehicles the answer for the mid- and long-term? Yes, for sure.

Wagoner then talks about the need for political action to speed the deployment of ethanol pumps across America to fuel the millions of flexible fuel vehicles GM and other carmakers have already built. He stated that GM plans to launch 25 flexible fuel models around the world in the near future. After announcing the investment in Coskata, and introducing the new Saab 9.4x BioPower crossover, he went on to emphasize...

Just to be perfectly clear. . . GM will continue to drive the development of electrically driven vehicles, our E-Flex propulsion system, plug-in hybrids, and fuel cell technology with all the speed we can muster. They uniquely have the potential to remove the automobile from the environmental equation.

CSIRO UltraBattery
On the battery development front, there is good news out of Australia. CSIRO's "UltraBattery", which combines the virtues of ultracapacitors and an energy battery, has just competed 100,000 miles (160,000 km) of vehicle testing in the UK. The ITwire news release indicated that hybrid vehicles using the battery could be in dealers' showrooms "within two years."

The story suggests how the technology works:

...there are cost, space and weight penalties from using both technologies and complex electronics needed to manage the flow of electrical energy into and out of supercapacitor and the battery add considerably to the cost.

The UltraBattery eliminates the need for all the control electronics required to manage electrical energy flows in a dual capacitor/battery system because energy flows are determined at a 'chemical' level by the internal construction of the unit.

It is as though the positive plate as been split into two: one half lead [the battery] and one half carbon [the capacitor]

If any of our readers in Australia would be interested in helping EV World learn more about this technology, please let me know at editor@evworld.com. I'd love to have some 'Down Under" talk to CSIRO and its spin-off company about this program. ...

Until next time, stay plugged into EVWorld...

--------------------

Electric cars face battery of hurdles
Sharon Terlep / The Detroit News

In the rush to deliver an electric car to the masses, General Motors Corp. is finding that the all-important battery might not be the only major hurdle.

The heating and cooling systems, for example, are a challenge because they typically are built to run off a traditional fuel combustion engine. That means new types of air conditioning and heating systems must be built.

GM, in a high-stakes race with Toyota Motor Corp. to turn out an affordable, effective battery-powered car, has found that while the lithium-ion batteries themselves are hitting all the marks on early road tests, a host of other issues are beginning to crop up.

"People tend to believe that if the battery question is solved, everything is solved and the vehicle will work," said Frank Weber, GM's vehicle line executive in charge of the electric car program. "But beyond the battery, the electric vehicle presents challenges that are significant."

A typical modern stereo system, for example, drains too much juice from the battery life. At the same time, there still isn't a supplier base to provide parts for the mass production of electric vehicles.

The quandaries underscore the complexity of what GM and other automakers are trying to achieve in creating an electric car, a feat that involves far more than simply swapping an engine for a high-powered battery cell.

GM executives say, despite the challenges, they still hope to meet a 2010 production goal for their first battery-powered offering: the much-hyped Chevrolet Volt.

The Volt is a variation of a plug-in hybrid vehicle, which Toyota also is racing to bring to market. Nissan Motor Co. and Ford Motor Co., too, are working on developing lithium-ion batteries that are more powerful and durable yet smaller than the nickel-metal hydride batteries in current hybrids...

Read more: http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/



 
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"We Won! Game over ; Electric cars face battery of hurdles" | Login/Create an Account | 6 comments | Search Discussion
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Re: We Won! Game over ; Electric cars face battery of hurdles (Score: 1)
by Veryskeptical on Sunday, February 24, 2008 @ 13:36:25 UTC
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The real question is of course who is winning! The free use of the pronoun "we" begs the question of who "we" really is. The push for electric vehicles is justified usually on the basis of the pollution effects of oil. But on this site alone reasons have been presented to doubt the argument for peak oil and the need to reduce CO2 emissions. Indeed an argument for global cooling available a few days ago in a comment on this site argued for an increase in CO2 emissions to combat global cooling! Now who is really right?

So what if this is all just a tullip mania? A conspiracy to run up the price of oil for profit, a drive to restrain technological advance by antitechnological zealots. In short an effort driven by motives that have nothing to do with the merits of electic cars or the sensible use of oil.

So long as people buy their cars it doesn't really matter if they are powered by electricity, oil or by horse dung, GM will turn a profit. The very concept of profit is simply a measure of survival. Take in more money than you have to pay out and you can go on doing whatever forever. It doesn't have to make any sense.

There is no serious discussion of contrary arguments in the public press. It seems to be that we have only a gung ho population flogged on by a vast public relations effort. As they say, a fool and his money are soon parted. I just wish I could avoid going along for the ride.



Re: We Won! Game over ; Electric cars face battery of hurdles (Score: 1)
by Maccabees on Saturday, February 23, 2008 @ 19:02:37 UTC
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Yes, we won; but I do not believe that electric car technology supporters should buy any product from GM or any other of the BIG AMERICAN CAR makers. 

They knew in the 70's that this country was in trouble.  They owned the global auto industry and complacently watched this country driven to the point where we have our backs against the proverbial wall by countries that have nothing but sand and the mere good fortune to sit on oil. 

GM & the others had the best engineers, the best workers, the biggest R & D budgets but were soaked to the core in greed.  And now the GM exec's speak as if they are inspired prophets.  Anyone with a double digit IQ knew we were in trouble more than 30 years ago.  Duh.

Now they are going to be hurting as other companies deliver the newer technology more quickly than the big boys can.  Their greed may in fact have sunk them.   If so, I will shed no tears.

It is not the fault of the workers.  But the workers will remember those in management that made the self serving decisions.



FYI: Zenn Still Planning on EEStor (Score: 1)
by vlad on Saturday, February 23, 2008 @ 16:43:17 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com

ZENN [www.zenncars.com] (TSX: ZNN [finance.google.com]) the Canadian manufacturer of low speed electric car vehicles has a statement in its first quarter 2008 report [www.marketwire.com] that they anticipated EEStor technology being commercialized and is making plans to incorporate it into its products. In addition ZENN is invstigating longer-range highway capable vehicles both as a retrofit for certain existing automobiles and producing small to midsize cars that have a top speed of 65 to 75 MPH (105 to 120 KPH) and a single-charge range of 200 to 400 miles (325 to 650 Km).

This indicates that they must still believe that EEStor's potentially disruptive technology for unique capacitor based energy storage systems is progressing to the point that they are willing to expend time designing their vehicles to use EEStor's systems, although they did not indicate when such vehicles will be available. See this post [thefraserdomain.typepad.com] and this one [thefraserdomain.typepad.com] for more information on EEStor.

Source: http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2008/02/fyi-zenn-still.html [thefraserdomain.typepad.com]

Via: http://freeenergynews.com/




Re: FYI: Zenn Still Planning on EEStor (Score: 1)
by RBM on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 @ 16:41:14 UTC
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I don't have time to track this kind of development, even though I wish I did, so I will ask a simple question - Do they have technical specifications out on any of the products - yet ? This was originally asked elsewhere by another poster who was of the opinion that EEStor was vaporware. I ask it in the same vein.


]


Re: We Won! Game over ; Electric cars face battery of hurdles (Score: 1)
by plastronneke on Monday, February 25, 2008 @ 13:48:56 UTC
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I don't believe GM says things like this ... Only one thing to say:
GM EV1
(please look on wikipedia or so if you don't know that car yet)



Re: We Won! Game over ; Electric cars face battery of hurdles (Score: 1)
by malc on Monday, February 25, 2008 @ 00:30:46 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://web.ukonline.co.uk/mripley
This still doesn't solve the main problem : energy. Where does the energy come from that is stored in the batteries?

OK so it may be electricity and thus enable any number of sources to be used for generation BUT where is the primary source of energy.

Wind - considerably more generators and storage required
Solar - still too expensive.
Biofuel - a non starter unless we reduce the earths population by 75%
Fission - a non starter unless you have fallen for the pro nuclear hype.
Fusion - yeh right! 50 years of research with more needed - jobs for the boys this one.
Hydrogen - back to the main problem the source of energy required to crack water (presumably).
GeoThermal - an interesting totally understated source and vastly underused and yet it sits there under almost everybodys home!
"New" Energy - Still waiting.......come to think of it isn't it that time of month for Mark Goldes to post his usual.

regards, 



 

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