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State of New Jersey investigation of GWE and UFCT
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 @ 20:57:30 UTC by vlad
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chipotle_pickle writes: The investigator is asking for investors to step forward. Contact info to follow.
[ED - This is a blandified version of this report washed out at Dean K's request. sigh.]
Dean Kuehnen
Investigator
Office of the Attorney General
Department of Law and Public Safety
Bureau of Securities
973-504-3623
KuehnenD@dca.lps.state.nj.us
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Re: State of New Jersey investigation of GWE and UFCT (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, December 05, 2003 @ 10:51:24 UTC | Naturally he doesn’t want his comments posted here. Perhaps he got a warning from his higher-ups. If you have already read this guy’s comments, it is clear he has an agenda to discredit GWE in a public forum, which his prior statements have already been commented on by other neutral observers and by any legal standard are completely out of line for any officer of government official involved in a case. I am aware of another situation that New Jersey was involved with. They have a record of using the government offices to go after investments, not to help the investors, but to get control over their funds. In this case, my opinion this a three-fold agenda. First, they have been given a mandate (from some other entity) to publicly discredit GWE, considering the international attention this process has been receiving. Secondly, to go after the ‘investors’ money. The scenario is to put together enough of a case, to be able to freeze their assets, then suck the accounts dry in attorneys fees, ffines, judgments etc. Whatever they can ‘legally’ extract. Therefore, draining off the investors money, and thus the companies ability to operate. Thirdly, to place a feather in the AG cap on a job well done.
What I cannot understand, is the zeal that so-called supporters of ‘ZPE energy’ and other renewable energy sources are so ready to jump on this bandwagon to label this as a ‘scheme’ and give these government guys credit for saving us from ourselves. I do not know whether GWE has a valid process or not, however, believe me, this issue is far more involved than simple protection of the investors. Think about it, there are literally hundreds of private investment ops out there that could be shown as questionable or perhaps improperly registered (if this particular situation fits the criteria), and yet they are going after GWE publicly with this vengeance?
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Re: State of New Jersey investigation of GWE and UFCT (Score: 1)
by baldy on Friday, December 05, 2003 @ 12:05:27 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | | In the past I bought and sold stocks in the Over the counter buletinboard stocks and watched and posted on a Yahoo chat page for those stocks. The OTCBB officials announced that they had watched & followed and arrested several unscrupolous(sic) investers that came to be known as pump and dump artists. They would hype a penny stock with fraudulant info having bought many thousand shares before the pump and when it had gone up considerably they would dump large blocks causing the shares to crash. The feds further disclosed that the P&D artists were being paid to watch the site and paid so much for each post they made. Sorry I am getting old and had forgotten about it. This post reminded me of it and is a clue to so much pessimism from the likes of Pickle and others. Bought and paid for by the Saudi's, Iraq Iran Opec and the like. Bet they make a good living at it. Where are there more bucks to throw around than in the Oil Patch! Ummm! If GWE makes it big they are definitly going to loose their grip on the throats of the worlds people? Just good business you say, I don't buy it! |
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Re: Kudos John! (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, December 05, 2003 @ 17:45:11 UTC | Once again, kudos John, great investigative work.
Does anyone else find Pickles sequence of posts, at least passing strange? What an interesting sequence of events:
First John urges all of the investors to:
"Write your AG. Write the department of securities in the state you bought the shares. Write your congressman. Write the DOJ."
Then, by coincidence, just a few days later he discovers that there already is an investigation being conducted by the Attorney General underway:
"The investigator is asking for investors to step forward. Contact info to follow."
Dean Kuehnen, Investigator, Office of the Attorney General, Department of Law and Public Safety
Bureau of Securities
I question if Dean Kuehnen is even aware that his name is being posted on the internet - though once he receives a torrent of calls from disgruntled investigators, maybe he will start doing a little digging...though, in my opinion, Mr. Kuehnen certainly doesn't write like a professional in his position at the Department of Public Safety.
John, I find it remarkable your uncanny ability to predict this chain of events. Are you hoping that we investors would take the bait and get the ball rolling? Or maybe we're a little too slow to pick up on that possibility?
I don't know if GWE is legitimate or not, but what I do feel strongly is that no one should rely on underhanded techniques that further cloud the issues. I once again question the motives behind the "fatherly" concern of John Lichtenstein. |
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Why not just register the shares? (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Saturday, December 06, 2003 @ 20:52:06 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | You say that you aren't sure if GWE is legit or not, but you also talk about "we investors" as if you are one of them. Isn't that an uncomfortable position, uncertain if your investment is a scam or not?
There really is no legit reason for GWE/UFCT not to register its shares and to tell the same story to everyone about who owns it and who runs it. Frankly, it's not going to make the H2 last any longer or shorter, the basic premise any more wide or misguided, or the design more or less sensible. But it will let everyone know who is doing what. Once Kelly has to take credit on the record for why his machine which doesn't work and wont ever work is just one hurdle shy yet again, I'm hoping to see some more creative excuses. The "need to give everyone in the world an equal chance to be a value added reseller" stall is just a copy of Dennis Lee's "I need 1.6 million people to pay $10 each to register as witnesses before I prove it works". In the years ahead, you will see stalls for the patent laws to be changed around the world to allow for the protection of an old "invention", stalls over the trademarks for Genesis and Edison, courtroom drama, ... You might see some really entertaining excuses. But you are never going to see revenue, inventory or dividends. |
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Saudis and paid free energy supression (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, December 05, 2003 @ 19:00:03 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | You probably don't want to blame the Saudis for everything. That must sound as ignorant and hostile to them as the blood libel sounds to us. There are too many real issues between the USA and the Kingdom for it to be prudent to use them as the bad guy in a throw away line.
I'm fascinated with this idea that there are people paid to stop perpetual motion machines from coming to market. Where do these people work? What's the job title? How much do they pay? Baldy, with your JV, you have a great resume (I spose). Why not send it to all the oil companies and car companies saying you want to work in their perpetual motion suppression department. Or whatever they call it. Let us know how many calls back you get.
At least one of the investors is a student in business school. She should talk to her school placement center councilor (or whatever they call it there) about getting one of these jobs. |
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Re: silly (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, December 05, 2003 @ 19:23:22 UTC | | come on john. you're smarter than this. of course big business wants to squash this technology. for obvius reasons. if it's not broke, don't fix it. your the enigma. what are your motives? we would all love to know. |
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Please be specific. Just for fun. (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, December 05, 2003 @ 20:38:49 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Thanks for switching to the more PC bad guy "big business".
Details would make this story more entertaining at least. What's the job title for energy suppression agents? What recruitment firms specialize? Is this what Zach De La Rocha and Sara Michelle Geller have been up to?
You must be aware that businesses have conflicting agendas. Sure, people who own a lot of equity in oil or coal might not root too hard for distributed power generation (weather solar, wind, or fantasy) but the folks who make batteries, UPS systems and inverters sure do. "If it ain't broke don't fix it" is a good rule in life but hardly a motto of business which is always looking for an angle why people need to go out and buy all new stuff.
What do I want? I want Zach to front No Doubt while Gwen takes time off with the baby (yeah Gwen). I want Angel to stand in the sun and just go away for good, and for Willow to join a new Spike oriented Angel. I want Weezer to play Buddy Holly at Elvis and Dianna's wedding, and I want an invite. I want to go through airport security line along with Alla Kliouka, joke about wooden legs, and pitch her a Sopranos story about GWE. I also want GWE to buy all its investors stock back. Which of these things do you think is the most unlikely? |
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Re: Please be specific. Just for fun. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, December 06, 2003 @ 14:07:00 UTC | | pickle, i truly think you've gone over the edge. i don't understand a single word you're saying. zanex john, it's a beautiful thing. |
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Re: Please be specific. Just for fun. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, December 06, 2003 @ 19:44:19 UTC | I agree. This sour pickle or what ever vegetable he claims to be is losing it. Did you ever notice when he is confronted, he usually becomes belligerent or carries on like a manure salesman with samples in his mouth.
When someone has something to hide they try to distract everyone. Maybe we should start investigation ‘John Lichtenstein”. We know where he works, lives, went to school, hangs out and see what his motives really are.
He claims he is a NICE GUY ……OK……Do you believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, the tooth fairy? Well if you do …I have a bridge that I can sell you…….Cheap.
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Re: Please be specific. Just for fun. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, December 06, 2003 @ 19:47:45 UTC | | He is a MANURE SALESMAN |
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Back to what counts. Me me me. (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Saturday, December 06, 2003 @ 20:24:13 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | What's there left to investigate, you have it all figured out. Just post it. Maybe you do know where I work, went to school, and live. But where do I hang out? What's that about?
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Re: Back to what counts. Me me me. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, December 07, 2003 @ 08:56:31 UTC | You said it buddy....it is all about you,you, you.
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Re: Please be specific. Just for fun. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, December 07, 2003 @ 11:17:29 UTC | Nice choice of words "I have a bridge that I can sell you" Are you sure its not shares of UFCT that you would like to sell? I don't understand the animosity
toward a pickle of any flavor! The Edison prototypes should be already produced in the thousands or hundreds of thousands and liscensees are anxiously waiting on these last days of the "1st fiscal quarter of 2004" Under these circumstances
John would be merely amusing and a person to be pittied for being a person who will be soon proved wrong for disbeleiving the greatest miracle since
Christ ran on water(Heck! He only WALKED on water).
I was hoping to get the whole ENTERTAINMENT PACKAGE and the Edison device for Christmas.
The only type of person that should be offended by
John's postings are people with something to hide or people refusing to believe that they were suckers. Its been said ,"It takes a big person to admit they were wrong", but I think that a WISE man learns something from his error, and then he tackles it with the power of his new found knowledge.
Evil? Cynical? Gullible?
I don't care if GWE and the EDISON device IS real.
I don't think John has been treated right, and should receive an apolagy from them once this miracle is revealed. Some postings on this site from people that hinted to be affiliated with shareholders GWE/UFCT have been less than professonal. ....I know I'm one to talk, but I'm just MOTSB..... |
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I just wish I had more funny stories (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Sunday, December 07, 2003 @ 11:48:54 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | The GWE folks seem to want to talk about me but not their investors or their strange and changing story to the investors or even why they claim not to have investors. They don't want to explain why the Edison has a metal hydride H2 storage system but no system to replenish that. They don't want to explain why the Edison has a different power output every time they talk about it (10 kW/day, 170 kWh/day, 26 kWh/day). They don't want to show the electric bill for the house that is supposed to be using the Edison. They don't want to show the warehouse where they are storing the million units they say they will assemble by the end of the year, or the production facilities where they will be making a million units a day by the end of next year. They don't want to explain why 6 months after they NDAed the license candidates, they don't have any licensees. If they were not hiding behind all those layers of secrecy, we would probably get some really great excuses out of them that would at least entertain.
But they want stories about me. I'm good with physical gags, not stories. Let's let them make up the stories about me then. |
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Re: I just wish I had more funny stories (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, December 08, 2003 @ 13:33:37 UTC | How can they have an electric bill if the Edison Device is running the house .......
By the way why should GWE answer to you...
What is your relationship with them.
John, I don't know about you but I have family members that work for a State in mideast and they could not believe that this guy from NJ would post something like that. |
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Re: dean k. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 @ 17:29:01 UTC | well believe it, i talked to him. call him for yourself.
He's investigating one thing. the sale of unregistered stock in new jersey.
he said he "couldn't care less if this thing works or not".
the illegal sale of stock is what he's interested in. |
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Re: dean k. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 @ 20:48:16 UTC | | Why does this remind me so much of the people who attacked the American Computer Company for their Roswell Invesitgation and TCAP technology a few years ago? |
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Re: dean k. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, December 11, 2003 @ 06:12:52 UTC | I don't know how stocks work but I do know that stocks need to be registered if its a publically traded company...if GWE or whatever the company is that is or did sell stock is private...then where is the violation??
In addition to this they cant claim GWE to be a pump and dump because you would need to release false information on the company to raise stock prices...then sell the stock when it reaches its peak.
Can someone clarify this "Unregisterd Stock" thing. |
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Even private companies have rules to follow (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, December 11, 2003 @ 10:09:20 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | There is type of corporation you can set up for just a few shareholders (? less than 35?) that doesn't require registering stock. But once you have hundreds of shareholders, you have to register the shares. Even if the company isn't public.
This is a variation on a pump and dump. The false information was not released to raise the price of the stock, the stock price was always 10 cents a share. The false information was relayed privately to the investors in order to sell the stock at the fixed price. It's still a pump and dump. It's just that a lot of the pumping and all of the dumping was done in the shadows. |
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Re: Even private companies have rules to follow (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, December 11, 2003 @ 10:40:55 UTC | | http://www.sec.gov/about/laws.shtml |
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Re: Even private companies have rules to follow (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, December 11, 2003 @ 16:38:58 UTC | | not even close john. not 35 investors. try more like 500. |
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Depends by state. Maybe Baldy could help out here. (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, December 11, 2003 @ 17:04:20 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | It depends on State rules. I don't know what Jersey is or Delaware. Maybe we can get someone who knows those states to comment. Paging Baldy. But the 500 share federal limit might explain why there are no signs (visible to me at least) of any federal action here yet.
The share issue that I've been bringing up is that the franchise tax fee hasn't been paid. DE requires a filing of how many shares have been sold, and a fee paid based on the number. UFCT is now 3 payments behind, counting the initial application fee (oh boy). That's beyond flaky.
Hey, what's your position here anyway? That GWE has investors, while they say they don't, but it's OK, since they have less than 500? I need an asparin.
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Re: i'm confused (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, December 11, 2003 @ 18:02:05 UTC | "There is type of corporation you can set up for just a few shareholders (? less than 35?) that doesn't require registering stock. But once you have hundreds of shareholders, you have to register the shares. Even if the company isn't public."
John, I pulled this from one of you earlier posts. Are you talking about the franchise tax fee here or the unregistered stock?
We all know that GWE has no investors. They say so on their website. silly rabbit! |
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You are supposed to be confused (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, December 11, 2003 @ 20:23:41 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | My comment there is about the registration of shares. But I really don't know the NJ limit.
This is all so confusing because GWE always uses different names for everything they do. It's a form of camouflage. |
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Re: the camouflage is understandable (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, December 11, 2003 @ 20:35:15 UTC | understandable, if this is for real. i mean, if it really works, there has to be interests that would want to stop it (possibly you being one of them). come on john, you have to agree this.
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the camouflage is a red flag (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, December 11, 2003 @ 21:05:08 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | No. It doesn't make any sense. It just hides them from a casual search. If I could put the pieces together in a month, then anyone with this type of research skill and a budget could have done it in days. Frankly, in this case, it invited attention.
Anyway, the laws of physics don't need ninja enforcement squads. There just isn't anyone anywhere paid to prevent these impossible schemes. It's possible that the nuclear industry is the victim of a smear campaign. But not the perpetual motion industry. |
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Re:...jimmy cracked corn, and john still cares? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, December 12, 2003 @ 18:43:40 UTC | john, then why do you care?
the device doesn't work, the investors are ignorent suckers, patrick kelly is a scam artist, gwe lies and, george w bush always has a stupid grin on his face. so why do you care!?!
you are all over this thing. not only on this site, but other sites as well. how can you call what you are up to a "casual search". you are URGING investors to DEMAND their money back. you are posting (at least on this site) all hours of the day and night. you are way to passionate. and please stop saying this is you trying to help the investors. most of the people you debate with on this site ARE investors. doesn't seem like they want your help.
so, clean up the toys you say clutter your home. play with your kids and catch up on will and grace. just leave this thing alone. let it play out.
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You really think most of the ACs here are investors? (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, December 12, 2003 @ 21:02:14 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Right on most counts, but I say that the investors are not trained in chemistry and manipulated by a whole series of fabrications, rather than that that they are ignorant suckers.
Some of the stories they use to manipulate investors would, if true, seem to preclude any possibility that I could bother them. Doesn't GWE say that all the major auto makers have asked to work with them? Doesn't Kelly say that the GM-Dow fuel cell deal announced in the spring is a test of the GWE technology? How am I going to stand in the way of GM? Do you remember someone (?CK?) on this site claiming that the US army was trying to buy technology from GWE? How can I stand in the way of the army? What about the house in Eagle that's been using an Edison all year, the checks from the power company for all the energy they have been selling back to the grid would sure make me look stupid. Of course, all the people offering to do independent tests of the Edison, who GWE has turned down, would also help GWE deal with minor PR issues, if only their machine worked. If there is any truth to any of the main stories here, then all my effort would be just brooming light. If someone is telling you that I am a danger to your investment, they are telling you you bought into a scam.
I don't say that I did a casual search for who is behind this. I did an unskilled, low budget search. A casual search is all that is blocked by this "we have no investors" story or the alphabet soup of companies.
I am sure investors lurk here, which I why I write here, but I always imagined that most of the ACs were part of the scam. Some of the people you might think are investors, people who claimed to check Kelly out for the other investors, they are old friends of Kelly and part of the scam.
I measure success not by popularity but by recovery. If investors are able to recover a substantial portion of their investments, my methods will be copied and refined. If not, they will be discarded. There is no standing in the way of progress. |
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Your family reaponsible for the Hoffa search? (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 @ 21:46:25 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Net metering. Anyone with a windmill or solar system sends excess to the grid on some days and pulls from it on others. If GWE had a house powered by a 2 kW Edison, they would have a an electric bill for August, when 2kW wasn't enough to power the AC, but lower than most. But they would have gotten a cheque from the power company for May.
I was a little surprised to see a public call for victims to step forward, but not shocked. Why should the victims have to wonder who is there for them? Now they know. The cost of finesse and investigators who wait for victims to work the maze to find them is Denis Lee.
Why should GWE answer to me? Business relationships are governed by a law that's everybody's business. GWE uses the threat that society at large will punish people who "violate their NDA" by speaking out. But if they want to use the law to protect their secrecy, they have to follow the law as well, no? That means if they want to sell stock to a few hundred people, they need to follow the rules set out for anyone else who does that.
Anyway, the only secrets they want to protect are that the Edison doesn't work as advertised and who exactly is running the scam. I don't know if Kelly, the guy selling the stock, is really the brains behind the operation or if there isn't another con man hiding behind him.
I really would like to learn, what made them decide on this scam? What made them think they would get away with it? For the people Kelly brought in, Darren and Nejhla Shaw, Theressa Guy, was there ever a point that they didn't know it's a scam? Since January at least, those three have all known. So, what made them decide to stick with it once they knew that they were lying about the investors? What's 30 pieces of silver go for these days?
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Hot Topic (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 @ 06:30:36 UTC | | You shure do throw out alot of names. Now, who are you? and what do you do? Who are you? You are a scum sucker who does nothing and knows nothing . |
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Re: Please be specific. Just for fun. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, December 06, 2003 @ 17:22:39 UTC | I want Weezer to play Buddy Holly at Elvis and Dianna's wedding, and I want an invite.
this is the one i pick. isn't elvis dead? |
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Not dead. Just a little pudgy around the middle. (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Saturday, December 06, 2003 @ 17:46:53 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Elvis Costello.
http://www.luckygoon.com/costello/news/2003/05/02.html
And I might already be too late.
http://www.kdpsradio.com/jocks/rhino.html |
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Re: you'll wish you were (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, December 06, 2003 @ 18:49:55 UTC | My bad...thought you meant Lisa Marie's dad. Although, if you listen to any of costello's new cd, as I have, you'll wish you were dead.
i still think you're up to no good. but, have to admit, you can be funny at times. |
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Re: you'll wish you were (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, December 08, 2003 @ 11:08:32 UTC | have been a supporter of ZP Energy for years. I am starting to question their integrity.
They have people who having nothing better to do than slam projects or accuse people that they have never met.
Insult nations and countries (they know nothing about), fresh ideas, professors, PhDs, inventions, etc
I have seen this chipotle on many different sites I agree that his motives are not very pure.
He claims he talks to many different people…does he also hear music...or people from mars whispering in his ear.
Vlad, please let us clean up your site and have some intelligent people debate instead of as one writer wrote “Manure Salesmen”
Walt |
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Re: you'll wish you were (Score: 1)
by vlad on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 @ 00:49:31 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://www.zpenergy.com | Walt, thank you for your support of ZPEnergy; I wish I can understand better why you write you’re starting questioning our integrity? Integrity means among others: honesty, sticking to principles, incorruptibility, straightforwardness, righteousness, sincerity. I don’t think we’ve broken any one of them.
I personally want GWE to be legit as much as you or any other believer on this site. But GWE are what they are and what we or the skeptics believe will not change that. I have the duty to present a balanced point of view, as I "said" it many times on this site or in replying to more or less demanding private messages from people who “love” or “hate” John Lichtenstein (chipotle pickle). John is a “necessary evil” for this site where most people are new-energy enthusiasts and can easily forget what a “cruel” real world is out there!
If GWE is legit, a “pickle” is the last thing they have to worry about. He knows that he can be in trouble in that case, since GWE will not want revenge but want to get even. But if they are a scam, John will get nothing…probably get blamed by some for contributing to the shattering of yet another attempt at fulfilling our dream for free and clean energy for this planet.
Consequently, I urge you to have “intelligent people debates” and involve John, as he’s not stupid at all, and remind him when he jumps “over the horse”. As for John, I don’t care what are his personal motives (if any) for his crusade against GWE (or if he’s paid for that or not) but as long as he keeps his decency and brings reasonable (at this time) arguments to prove his point (even though they might prove wrong/malicious in the end), he will stay. People, prove him wrong (I ask again GWE to do it, with irrefutable arguments – it’s about time)!
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Re: State of New Jersey investigation of GWE and UFCT (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, December 29, 2003 @ 11:06:31 UTC | | All of you people are arguing about a machine that none of you have seen!!!!! The Genesis team from what I read is no more than 3 people. Genesis says they are producing 1 million units daily yet no companies have heard of them or the contracts they claim to have? Companies like GE are also working on this technology and they are not hiding on secluded farms outside of Meridian, Idaho. I contacted the AG's office and it openned my eyes. Through my own reading I have discovered that GWE is indeed affiliated with Dennis Lee. What a joke that is!!!! Maybe everyone should stop bickering and start looking into the true backgrounds of the GWE team!!!!! All you out there holding liscenses with GWE...... I would like your names for future reference when I need easy targets to take advantage of. You all would believe that Unicorns really do exist. Right about now the "Team" is probably heading out to Reno, Nevada to establish offshore accounts to steal our money. The GWE website is one big round-about..... Corporate Giving???? Prove it!! Edison Device???? Prove it!!! Company Headquarters??? Prove it!!!! Anyone nowadays can have a nice website. Hell, my neice made her own that could rival GWE's. Darren Shaw...... who are you???? what are your creds??? I did a google search on you and could only come up with the fact that you are a male, about 27-29, went to school in Arizona, looks to be unemployed except for the fact that he is his Nejhla's slave. CEO's have credentials....... Where are Darren's????? He is just a puppet!!! Hey, I know my money is gone. GWE has had so many chances to send me something other than canned responses to my questions. |
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Dennis Lee? (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Monday, December 29, 2003 @ 14:36:54 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Can you please tell us what is the connection to Dennis Lee?
About the licensees. There are no licensees, only license candidates. Those guys are really part of the problem. They see that you guys are told that GWE is building a million units by the end of the year, postponing a dividend till next year, hiring thousands of people ,... and they know that's all wrong since they haven't even signed up as licensees.
It's Kelly who took your money. And he doesn't seem to have unloaded it all yet. If you fight for it, you can get it back. Some investors have gotten their money back. Even if Kelly runs out of money, you should be able to recover some from the other promoters (Shaws, Guy-Rome, the stone guy). Call the AG in Idaho. |
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Re: lost it's "energy"...ha!! (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, December 29, 2003 @ 19:56:43 UTC | | let me ask you john...do you think it at all telling that baldy and the like have stop posting since this "letter" has been sent to all the "investors"? |
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Re: lost it's (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 @ 05:45:10 UTC | | I think that they have stopped because they still have the hopes that they have not been scammed. I have woken up!!!! The liscense candidates are not the problem...... They are just the biggest idiots. I know one. None of these people have seen any machine at all. Theythink that they are part of some gigantic energy revolution. In fact, they are mere sheep being lead over the cliffs. Patrick Kelly is just using the Shaws ultimately. He is probably having an affair with her behind her husband's back. Boy if Darren Shaw ( who I feel is prob. a son of Nejhla), knew, he would feel pretty dumb. I found out that the officers of GWE speak to Dennis Lee almost daily through a liscense candidate that I invested with. It amazes me how dumb people are...... I am kicking myself for having been one myself. I am trying to get who sold the investment to me's name so I can post it all over the place. I think that he is in NJ, but I am not, so I have to start digging. Stone Guy does ring a bell though. |
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The license candidates are too part of the problem (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 @ 09:49:55 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Those guys pay no money, they never will pay any money, since there never will be a working model for them to test. All they have to do is post excuses for GWE. Cheap. And out of it, they get this energy revolution fantasy. Those guys know a lot that could help educate investors about what's really going on here, but they wont post in a thread that has a lot of investor comments since their fantasy requires imagining that there are not any investors. (We haven't heard from them all yet though, since some are taking the holidays off, and good for them.)
Now it looks like you are saying that you invested with a license candidate. This seems like a whole new twist. I think that guy is running his own scam. There are *no* licensees. In case it's one of the people who was also promoting the UFCT stock then you should call the NJ AG at the number given in this article. Also, call the AG in your own state. Let me know if you are in California since then I can try to help lobby for attention. Every state that has an open file on these guys is a state that it will be harder for them to launder their money in.
Darren and Charles Shaw are Nejhla's sons. That was in the press conference info.
Someone upthread asked why Baldy and other license candidates stopped posting when some letter went out to investors. The license candidates wouldn't have gotten the letter, they aren't investors. They wont post in investor threads since it interferes with their "no investor" fantasy.
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Re: baldy (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 @ 19:42:27 UTC | | john, prove me wrong,but, i don't remember baldy claiming to be a licensee, just an investor. where did he state that? |
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There are no licensees (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 @ 10:41:54 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | Just candidates. You want proof Baldy is a license candidate? Just look at his user profile. Honey, your research skills are dirt poor. |
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Re: so are yours sweety (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 @ 11:10:17 UTC | Not sure why you're calling me honey. Thought you were heterosexual. What ever floats you goat, johnny.
When does a candidate become a licensee? What's the criteria? You couldn't be farther from the truth when it comes to a lot of issues about uftc, gwe, p. kelly, and the shaws. And, I have no intention of sharing with you, no need too. keep digging, I thoroughly enjoy your ranting...talk to you next year. |
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Doubtful (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, January 01, 2004 @ 08:49:31 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | It's doubtful that someone who doesn't know how to verify that Baldy claims to be a license candidate and doesn't know what the difference between a candidate and a licensee is knows any secrets about Kelly, UFCT, GWE, or the Shaws worth following up on. Go ahead and keep it to yourself. |
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Re: Doubtful (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, January 01, 2004 @ 11:10:51 UTC | | keep preaching in an empty room. you've kept everyone REAL captivated with your wealth of knowledge. |
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Re: Doubtful (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, January 10, 2004 @ 11:48:48 UTC | Hey pickle where you involved with this
You and some of your friends are really sick puppies.
Re: What Ever Happened To BlackLightPower?
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Involved in what? (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Saturday, January 10, 2004 @ 22:58:17 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | No, I did not set up GWE, UFCT, GES, WEM, or GSC as a prank or anything else. Kelly set those all up. Does that answer your question? |
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Sick Pickle – A Demented Self Fulfilling Prophecy In Action (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, December 08, 2003 @ 15:11:03 UTC |
Isn’t it amazing that Anthony reveals in his writings that Pickle has been filing false complaints with regulatory agencies and weeks later we are informed that the State of New Jersey is investigating GWE and UFCT? I see pickle’s fingerprints all over this one.
Why would the State of New Jersey be trolling around chat rooms anyway? You would think that if people felt they had been swindled, they would be beating a path to his door.
Pickle, you’re one limp cucumber. I just hope the folks at GWE make an example out of you through the courts.
Edwin Meaks |
Re: Sick Pickle – A Demented Self Fulfilling Prophecy In Action (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, December 08, 2003 @ 16:06:47 UTC | Edwin, I was thinking the same. I remember the postings of Anthony where he outlined that pickle was calling various states. I agree with you that pickle's fingerprints are all over this. I hope that GWE goes after all these clowns.
My personal feeling is that this pickle is getting paid to do this bashing by interest groups. I know all about that.
When I originally started my business my competitors used to do that. That was 30 years ago, some of them have come and gone, I am still going strong. I will contact GWE and offer them my services.
What about this investigator from N.J. If he supposedly had all these people complaining that his friend the pickle claims, would he be on the chat rooms or as I call them the smut room.
Is that legal or does the State of New Jersey march to their own drummer.
Retired in Florida |
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GWE can't let the Edison be tested (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Monday, December 08, 2003 @ 19:50:55 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | They are afraid that anyone they sued would subpoena the Edison. They know it doesn't work, so, they can't have that. For a long time they threatened to sue and I hoped, but it's not to happen.
Was Anthony really the one who talked about an investigation? I wonder how he found out. Not all the investors knew. I wonder sometimes if Anthony is an investor or an insider. |
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Re: GWE can't let the Edison be tested (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 @ 07:37:24 UTC | | I thought somewhere some time ago that the WorldEnergyManagement site stated that licensees will have access to three independent lab test results. Like some people I cant base my descision on the limited information on the GWE site. I can almost guarentee that some information was left out intentionally on how the technology works. It would be stupid to completely reveal how your product works. Then there is all this talk about why no patents can be found....my assumption is that they didn't create new technology...like they state on there web site "Amazingly, it was right there in front of us all this time; we just were not looking at it that way." All they did was use existing technology in a way to achieve their goal. Thats why they are protecting it like they are...because the components they use already have been patented by their creators. |
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This IP story makes no sense (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 @ 09:33:15 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | You can get patents for trivial inventions. Just check out the "one click" patent. But even if you couldn't, this makes no sense. If the Edison can't be patented because the invention is trivial, then it wouldn't make any sense as an investment, and it wouldn't make any sense for the licensees to sign IOUs for the right to sell them. And it wouldn't make any sense for GWE to use secrecy or talk about using self destruct mechanisms to protect the IP. If the components were already patented, again, there would be no need for secrecy.
The licensees are never going to see tests since there are no licensees and there are not ever going to be any. I would encourage the license candidates who post here also to call the NJ AG since you might have information that would help the investigation. |
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Re: GWE can't let the Edison be tested (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 @ 09:39:45 UTC | My dad used to say be careful what you wish for
Pickle, you are a pessimist. I am an optimist.
Most pessimist that I know are bitter people. I am
curious are you an investor? |
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I hope the Edison is tested (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 @ 10:11:44 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | I'm not an investor. The investors were really happy for a while right after the press conference and started talking a bit. They aren't hard to find if you look for them. And if you put up a big enough sign, they beat a path to your door.
I hope the Edison is tested. I am afraid that Kelly and Shaw will never let things deteriorate to the point that that happens. Then there would be no doubt in anyone's mind that it was a scam from day one, and maybe some people will learn to be a little more careful next time. I suspect Kelly wants to start the same scam up again under a different name. Maybe next time he wont hold a press conference.
Am I bitter? Is that bad? In season 6 of Buffy, Willow says that coffee is like love, hot and bitter. |
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Re: I hope the Edison is tested (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 @ 08:02:25 UTC | Do you know these people personally or are you assuming all the thing you write about. Is this all based on here say.
I would hate to be in your shoes when you are proven wrong.
Like your quote and to answer your question Bitterness is bad. |
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I've contacted those people in January. (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 @ 09:49:28 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Since then, they will say nothing, yes or no as to their relationship with UFCT, Kelly, and the investors on the East Coast. If you like, you can call them, and they wont say anything to you either. If they are not involved with the stock cales by Kelly, why wont they say that they are not involved with the stock sales by Kelly?
There are really two issues, the machine and if it works as advertised, and the stock. I say the machine doesn't work as advertised. If they want to show me wrong, they can demonstrate the machine. They don't do that. You make up your own mind if they really have an invention, but elect not to provide any evidence, or if there is no invention. I suppose 50 years from now there will still be people who believe there was an invention.
But with the stock, there really isn't any argument. I say they are aware of stock sales, as I have told them about them in January. I asked them to directly contradict my exposition, and they continue to say nothing. QED on that count. |
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Re:letter? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 @ 19:46:38 UTC | did anyone get anything in the mail today?
feedback? |
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Was the letter from GWE/UFCT (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 @ 21:01:54 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | If so, I see why you might want to check that other people got the same letter before you broadcast (though I would prefer you didn't). But if the letter was from anyone else, why not just say what it was? |
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Re: Was the letter from GWE/UFCT (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, December 11, 2003 @ 09:38:47 UTC | John,
To come back to technical topics, what do you think of the AEC hydrogen + fuel cell technology you mentioned in one of your earlier posts ?
http://www.cleanwatts.com/default.asp?id=technology.faq
At least they admit a stationary home unit of 6-7kw operates for months at a time without refresh of material (exception of water). The refresh materials are safe and biocompatible chemicals.
Subsequent to finalization of patent filings and compilation of all data, a technology ‘spec sheet or White Paper’ will be produced and distributed to all wishing clarification and/or supporting scientific data.
I think the technology they developed in Canada is basically related to the GWE technology, but they are much less secretive than the GWE folks.
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I'll read their whitepaper when it comes out. (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, December 11, 2003 @ 09:48:36 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | So far, they are secretive about what their invention is, but not about who they are. It seems hopeless. You never trade a more dense fuel for a less dense one. Whatever chemicals they use to produce H2 would release more energy if they just burned them directly.
The CEO seems like a nice enough guy. Maybe he's got some market other than the energy industry in mind, such as mobile H2 generation for baloons, or mobile kits for fuel cell vendors. It's hard to see how a company would ever make a million a year in those niches. |
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Re:letter? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, December 11, 2003 @ 08:47:21 UTC | | a credit card application with a great introductory rate!!!! |
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Re: I've contacted those people in January. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, December 11, 2003 @ 11:55:49 UTC | So from what I see it is all speculation on your part.
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LOL - Try a lot harder. (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, December 11, 2003 @ 15:08:42 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | I have email from replying to my messages informing everyone of (what was then) on-going stock sales. It's not speculation everyone knew about the stock.
I'll short circuit a discussion of if I could have forged the email. They are leaving behind evidence all over the place that I can't forge. I am not their problem anymore.
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Are Sterling's photos right? (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 @ 21:12:01 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Sterling has an article up. What I wonder about most is the model car he's showing, saying that some investors saw this in the pitch. Can anyone confirm this for us?
http://www.hammacher.com/publish/64680.asp
That cart is totally cool! Of course it's silly to use H2 to store solar power. Still, for $150, if my place wasn't full of baby stuff, I would have to have one of those. |
Re: Are Sterling's photos right? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, December 11, 2003 @ 16:02:11 UTC | | "baby stuff" !! so that's what you do on your down time. great outlet, kids toys. there is no way someone would consider having a child with you. is there? |
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And good looking kids too. Uh oh. (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, December 11, 2003 @ 17:48:17 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | You sound bitter.
I'm asking a serious question. Is that cart the solar gizmo that "Anthony" was talking about? I never heard about the solar side of the story except for Anthony's comments till Sterling's story. Was a cart that converted light-> electricity + waste heat -> H2 + waste heat -> electricity + waste heat part of the pitch?
I don't understand how that cart could have been motivating. I mean, as a toy, as an example of an unworkable device, as a science learning tool, the toy is very cool. But as some kind of energy invention, I just don't get it. What was the commentary that went along with it? |
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GWE coverage at PRWeb (Score: 1)
by vlad on Friday, December 12, 2003 @ 19:18:31 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com | From Sterling D. Allan: I would like to hit you up for $30 to enable the GWE press release I composed and posted at PRWeb to be distributed better on the wire services, including Google News and Yahoo News.
It will also increase its showing at PRWeb.com
Presently, with no donation, it is sitting at position 189 for release on Dec. 11
http://www.prweb.com/news/20031211/index.htm
$30 will put it securely on page 2. And it will enable related images to be uploaded to augment the release.
It would take $61 to get it on page 1 as of today, by the time it goes live on Dec. 11, others might up their contribution level to keep themselves on page 1.
a.. Genesis World Energy Under Investigation for Fraud
GWE claims it will solve world energy needs. Eyewitnesses say one of the bench-top model used by GWE for proof of concept demos is nothing more than a slight modification of a fuel cell devices sold at Hammacher Schlemmer. NJ Attorney General's office engaged in full investigation into likely securities fraud.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2003/12/prweb93743.htm
If you would like to contribute, you may send via PayPal: sterlingda@greaterthings.com
Thanks
Sterling
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I [Vlad] also got the following submission for the main page from an Anon (?...could not confirm any of it yet):
"It seems our friends " The Pickle" and his nay- saying counterpart John Lichtenstein are eating crow. It is official UFCT and GWE are the same company. Official anouncements have been made and investors are receiving their letters as you read this. OOPS! Looks like the company IS for real. Maybe this will keep pickle quiet for awhile !!"
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Re: GWE coverage at PRWeb (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, December 12, 2003 @ 19:48:38 UTC | | confirmed...gwe & uftc, one in the same. yippie!! score one for the good guys. |
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Re: Johnny (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, December 12, 2003 @ 20:29:15 UTC | | It's been 4 1/2 minutes. Pickle/John hasn't responded yet? I guess he does have a life. |
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Wow - UFCT and GWE the same company (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, December 12, 2003 @ 22:04:13 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | If people I don't know are getting letters in the mail, this is well beyond my hoaxing skills. I didn't write that letter. Vlad if you think this is something that calls for verification, why don't you do two things:
1 - Ask for a fax. I know. Yeuch. But still.
2 - Ask Shaw and Guy.
Vlad, do you think the letter is real?
Who signed the letter? Kelly? Shaw?
My guess is it was not signed by Shaw, and will not be confirmed by Shaw or Guy. But please find out what you can. If they don't respond right away, please ask them to confirm or deny the contents of the letter. If they don't respond to that, ask them to confirm or deny the contents of my story from January, claiming that GWE has sold share under the name of UFCT. If they will not confirm or deny, Vlad, would you agree that the logical conclusion is that they concede that GWE and UFCT are the same company? I'm interested in your thoughts on that. So far Vlad, I have been very frustrated with GWE boosters who can't be bothered to check my story with GWE, who, to date, has been unwilling to contradict it. It's like people don't want to know the truth.
I did a shift reload and the GWE page still says PUBLIC NOTICE: Genesis World Energy has never offered or sold equity to either public or private entities and does not intend to do so.
I am sure there must be some significance to this, but I'm not sure what it is. I am sure that Baldy will not believe it unless you get confirmation. Some people wont believe you even if you do. |
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Re: Passion Plea!! (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, December 13, 2003 @ 18:21:25 UTC | | here is a passion plea to all investors who post on this site. i am an investor as well, and, i ask all of you to stop sharing information about this company and product(s) with pickle and the like. these individuals, as benign as they are, are not here to help. they have an agenda. let this thing play out. we will all benefit from it soon enough. |
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Re: Passion Plea!! (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, December 13, 2003 @ 21:34:59 UTC | | I could not agree more. It is hard to fathom why anybody would share anything with pickle,sterling and the rest of his gang. I agree with some writers they certainly have an agenda. |
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I agree too. Start a site in your own language (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Saturday, December 13, 2003 @ 23:04:40 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Kelly and I, neither one of us will be able to read it. Consider http://gr.yahoo.com/. Just a reminder, not everyone is what they say. Some people who say they are investors are insiders. None of you investors was ever a very good source of information for me. Tough as porcupines you guys are. The information I get now, I get from another source.
If all you have is a letter from Kelly saying what he's told you all along, that Shaw works for him while she says that she doesn't, you guys shouldn't be happy with that and you know it. Talk about it yourselves, in a language Kelly doesn't know, and work out what you think makes sense. And about the machine, if all you know is what you saw, you have to be aware that you aren't trained to observe chemical processes. You need to get a chemist or a chemical engineer in to test this system. If Kelly doesn't like it, there is only one explanation why not. Just call the chemistry department at Temple, Rutgers, or Princeton and you will find first rate help. I could try to find someone to volunteer time for you guys but there is no reason for you not to hire your help.
All the auditing steps I've suggested, looking at the electric bill, looking at the inventory for the supposedly operational production centers still make sense. Talk to each other and figure out how to make that happen.
Someday you will see that it's the folks with your money in their wallets who are out to get you, not me. But till then, good luck.
john |
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Re: "not everyone is what they say." Including you, i would assume? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, December 14, 2003 @ 17:00:48 UTC | Great idea about the website, although if I may make a slight modifcation: You, no. Kelly, we should welcome.
Your ego blows me away sometimes John - who invited your opinion in the first place? You say we were never a good source of information. Did you ever consider it to be deliberate? I would love to see this other source. My guess, it doesn't exist.
With this kind of dedication, persistance & passion with nothing to gain, you should possibly pursue an even greater goal. Now that Saddam's been caught, (which I'm sure you could have done a lot quicker then the US Military) how about skiing downhill in the Winter Games in Italy, 2006! Bring us home the gold, Johnny!!
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Re: pickle (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, December 15, 2003 @ 19:40:42 UTC | | i guess you finally scared him away with this post. |
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125 years before GWE (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Monday, December 15, 2003 @ 20:50:08 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | I'm just pacing myself.
UFCT was founded the same month as the WTC attack, is that right? It's noteworthy that for 125 years before then, the worst terrorist attack in America was the September 1876 Mountain Meadows Massacre. Just think about this when dealing with Kelly.
http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/meadows1.htm#INTRODUCTION |
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Re: 125 years before GWE (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, December 15, 2003 @ 22:02:03 UTC | | You've totally lost me. Why are you bringing up the Mountain Meadows Massacre here? Is there some Mormon connection? |
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Re: metal (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 @ 16:49:11 UTC | Forgive me, I drop in and out of this site from time to time. I have no idea what you are talking about right now.
A while back some of there was discussion about the "consumable(s)" used in the Edison Device. I think you were talking about a metal that "broke down" over time (the amount of time being the BIG question). I've tried to look back to earlier posts but, find this site a little difficult to navigate.
My question is: is metal the only (for lack of a better word) "catalyst" for this type of device, has anything else been tested that won't "breakdown" as quickly? |
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Re: metal (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 @ 19:13:20 UTC | | good question. pickle is the one to answer that one. |
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metal (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 @ 15:04:32 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Just look down the periodic chart. Balance the oxidation reactions and look up the energies in the CRC. You will find a lot of metals that can react with water to release energ + H2. These are fuels, not catalysts. The equations balance out the same way all the time. An additional catalyst might help the reaction occur at a lower temp, or quicker, but the trade off between fuel, water, and H2 released is fixed. There has been a lot of talk ltely (don't know why) about burning Al in water and lye (NaOH) where the NaOH is the catalyst and the Al the fuel. Check the Yahoo mail list
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alternatefuelvehicles/
for some discussion. Check esp for posts by Graham Cowan. |
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Re:curious (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 @ 19:56:00 UTC | | you talk as if you know him personally. did he steal your girlfriend in college? come on john, you can tell us. we're all friends here. |
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Re:curious (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 @ 14:02:03 UTC | I hope if GWE reads this site, they will not take to heart all the idiots running around making claims that is handed down to them by other idiots. I believe that every day new discoveries are revealed and reviewed, its people like some of the above who turn this field into a circus.
Anyone with an IQ in double digits will find it distasteful to even go into this area to explain things or have an intelligent discussion.
If one hundred years ago today we had people like the above the Wright brothers would have been known for building bicycles.
I am with the majority I want them to succeed in 2004!
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Re:curious (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 @ 14:19:37 UTC | re pickle
I live in the LA area and just to let you know I am with the majority I want GWE to succeed. One of my co workers send me the attached link. He was told that John Lichtenstein was involved with this.
... United States Attor- neys, Los Angeles, California, for ... his com- pany, Financial and
Accounting Consultants (FAC). ... extensive role in the investment scheme than......
Majority
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Re:curious (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 @ 17:36:25 UTC | | I hope you understand the implications associated with Libel and Slander. The same standard that everyone wants applied to John and his writings apply to you and yours. Be sure that what you write is true and verifiable! |
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Forget true, I'll settle for understandable (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 @ 19:02:29 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | What's the last guy trying to say anyway, that there is a US Attorney in LA named John Lichtenstein? Or a corporate lawyer? Really? I should try to call him up. Anyway, it's not slander to call someone a lawyer, even if they are not.
Someone above asks if Kelly is my old school chum. I doubt it. Kelly's webpage suggests he was out of school and working by the early 80's and I didn't start college till 84.
I've noticed that since we've had a rash of posters writing in claiming to be investors, the posters who really are license candidates have all shut up. That's too bad. Those guys (Baldy etc) have a lot of information that would be valuable to the investors. The investors are told that GWE and their company UFCT are really the same, that they have been in production since August, and will have a million units built by the end of 2003. The license candidates believe these two companies aren't the same (at least Baldy), know that they have made no travel plans to view the technology, and have no dates for when they will get components for localization, customization and ssafety testing. The license candidates could really fill the investors in on the liklihood that GWE/UFCT is in production on anything, or about to pay a dividend. |
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Forget true, I'll settle for understandable (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 @ 19:02:30 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | What's the last guy trying to say anyway, that there is a US Attorney in LA named John Lichtenstein? Or a corporate lawyer? Really? I should try to call him up. Anyway, it's not slander to call someone a lawyer, even if they are not.
Someone above asks if Kelly is my old school chum. I doubt it. Kelly's webpage suggests he was out of school and working by the early 80's and I didn't start college till 84.
I've noticed that since we've had a rash of posters writing in claiming to be investors, the posters who really are license candidates have all shut up. That's too bad. Those guys (Baldy etc) have a lot of information that would be valuable to the investors. The investors are told that GWE and their company UFCT are really the same, that they have been in production since August, and will have a million units built by the end of 2003. The license candidates believe these two companies aren't the same (at least Baldy), know that they have made no travel plans to view the technology, and have no dates for when they will get components for localization, customization and ssafety testing. The license candidates could really fill the investors in on the liklihood that GWE/UFCT is in production on anything, or about to pay a dividend. |
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Re: prove me wrong (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 @ 19:51:51 UTC | john, i could be mistaken but, i don't recall them saying they've been in production?
have you personally read this supposed letter sent out to the supposed stock holders? |
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It's also on the GWE site (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, December 18, 2003 @ 05:41:34 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | The investors were told in early September that they were in production, and GWE put it into a web page update that made it up in late Sep. It's still there. GWE says its licensees will be responsible for localization and regulatory approval, and has no licensees, but says they went into production on August 19, just one month before they incorporated. Just do a Google search for
"Genesis World Energy" "August 19" and you will find On August 19, 2003, GWE began the production of Edison Technology components, which will support the delivery of Edison Devices to consumers and businesses in 2004. |
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Re: Forget true, I'll settle for understandable (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, December 18, 2003 @ 08:56:02 UTC | | Where is that information posted about GWE. I have searched all over. |
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Re: be more specific (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, December 18, 2003 @ 16:35:26 UTC | I can't find it either. Be more specific. Where exactly do they say "production" started in august 2003?
Also, something I've asked John L. in the past but never received a satisfying response. what is the reason for the scam? the answer, very simply, should be MONEY!! but, that can't be it. right john? i mean if all they get from this is, the insignificant "donations" of (nonexistent) stockholders, it's all been for not. the rewards don't outweigh the risks.
i find it hard to believe licensees are shelling out billions without going through the proper due diligence. That is simply not possible. so how is the real money being made John? The logical answer? It's not a scam. the company is legit. |
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Re: naught (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, December 18, 2003 @ 17:02:08 UTC | | it's naught, not not. |
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This is an investment scam. (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, December 18, 2003 @ 18:11:39 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | You ask where to find the production claims on the GWE site. I already gave instructions, just do a Google search for "genesis world energy" "august 19" and it's easy to find the quote I gave before. Or you can put the quote into Google, and it finds one hit, the one you want. This link ought to work as well. I shift reloaded, so the claim is still there on their site.
On August 19, 2003, GWE began the production of Edison Technology components, which will support the delivery of Edison Devices to consumers and businesses in 2004.
It was one of the anon posters who claimed to be an investors that had heard that the company went into production and then later read about it on the site. It would take to long to dig through the anon posts for the link.
You ask how the scam works. I explain that Genesis World Energy is an investment scam. The stock has already sold, in 2001-September through 2003-XX. The GWE website is updated to provide a serial drama to distract the investors who bought stock. This isn't a Dennis Lee donations type deal, these people bought stock. It's true that they brought in only a few million, and there is not too much risk that offsets. But free energy con man is a pretty safe profession. When is the last time one of those guys was arrested? Maybe Kelly figures that the fraud squad will come after him only after Dennis Lee and Joe Newman. Or maybe he thinks he has set someone else up to take the blame. Ask patrick@GS-NET.COM.
I agree it's hard to see licensees shelling out a lot of up front money. And it's hard to see GWE risking contact with anyone new (who might me taking evidence) for only a small amount of money. So it seems like there will not be new victims, only the current set. I can hope that it's only the current set.
I hope this answered your questions. |
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Re: kinda (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, December 18, 2003 @ 19:34:56 UTC | | not really. too many holes. but, thanks for the reasponse. |
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Re:hole (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, December 19, 2003 @ 05:09:38 UTC | i see a hole. a big one!!. in the scammers wallet. i know for a fact how much money has been raised. it is simply not enough to perpetuate this so called "fraud". YOU keep trying. remember - innocent until...(well, you know the rest, or do you).
also remember this one. "let the buyer beware". back off pickle. no one needs your incredibly slanted insights. |
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Re:right you are!! (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, December 19, 2003 @ 06:29:45 UTC | | pickle's entire case is one BIG BLACK HOLE!! keeping this thing going for a few million dollars, kelly doesn't need it. he's already wealthy from legitimate business. stop responding to this idiot pickle. |
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Kelly isn't rich, and has no ties to legitimate businesses. (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Saturday, December 20, 2003 @ 01:47:02 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Kelly had a federal tax lien for just about $100k for close to a decade that he just paid off in 2002. That's one of the places your "investment" dollars went.
I'm unable to verify any relationship between Kelly and any legitimate business. The Vet clinic company and the doctors group work was his brother, not him. Have you ever actually looked at his webpage? No phone number, no contact address, no full names other than Patrick Kelly and Bob Kelly. The whois info shows that the contact number given for that site belongs to a dentist. I called that office and they said that the dentist has had that phone for years. Now maybe Liz works there. But still, that's darn flaky. If you told me Kelly was homeless, I might believe you. But rich? You are kidding yourself.
Or maybe you aren't the one who is kidding you. Some investors were told that some other investors had looked into Kelly's background. They didn't. They were old friends of Kelly's. They didn't look into anything. They are Kelly's shills. Why don't you try to find a legit business kelly is involved in, and verify that relationship for yourself? If he says it's all military, get him to give you the name of a retired procurement officer who worked with him back in the day. If he says it's all classified, and he can tell you nothing about it, then you will know that nothing is what you know about Kelly's background. Good grief, you guys know more about me than you know Kelly. |
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30 pieces of silver (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Saturday, December 20, 2003 @ 01:26:20 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Please help me understand your argument. Are you saying that nobody ever runs scams for small amounts of money? This makes no sense. Except for the government run ones (the ethanol program, freedom fuel, etc) no perpetual motion scam has ever taken in much more than a million a year. Are you saying that Joe Newman, Dennis Lee, Paul Pantone, Carl Tilley, Grant Romundt, Sanjay Amin ... that none of them ran scams because none of them ever took in much more than a million a year in "investment". Even the ones who are in hiding outside of the country to avoid angry investors from past scams?
Jesus was sold out by a friend in a fit of quickly regretted bad judgment for 30 pieces of silver (not a million dollars). Some people (Ossama Bin laden, Brigham Young) will kill hundreds of strangers just to send a message to the USA. Some people will kill you for your shoes. And you argue that Kelly values you too much to rob you of however much you've given him? How much would your friends rob you for?
Anyway, how much money Kelly hasn't raised is further proof that this is a scam. He tells you guys he's going to have a million units built by next week. Well, each unit will have to be inspected, stamped, wrapped (maybe boxed) and inventoried. Why don't you ask to get a souvenir copy of all the different inspection stickers they are using? They should have spent about 6 figures so far just on the stamps and wrapping material. If they have to put things in boxes, ouch, that's at least a million dollars right there. You might also ask for the procedures manual for the inspectors. That should be about an inch thick. Just a souvenir copy. Back to the money. Look at the picture of the Edison. Can you identify any components on that thing that cost less than $10 to build? Well if he didn't raise $10 mil, but he says he's built a million units, and the stamps and cellophane cost 6 figures and the boxes 7, where is he getting operating capital from? Answer: he's not built a million units, there is no procedures manual, there are no stamps, no boxes, no inspections, no production.
I know it's hard. You say something you didn't understand. Now someone who didn't see it, tells you that he understands it, and that the guy who showed it to you was a fraud. But imagine for a minute this was your brother who was contemplating this investment, instead of you who had made it. Wouldn't you tell him to check that there really is production as they claim (the manuals, the stickers) that the invention really works as advertised (independent testing, measuring the metal hydride storage and cGells before and after) and that the people involved are on the level (and don't say that their names can't appear in print except in articles written by Lichtenstein)? Wouldn't you shake him? If he complained that you were treating him like a baby, what would you say? Maybe that if he wants you to treat him as if he doesn't need looking after, he can look after himself.
Start looking after yourself. |
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Re: i thought is was your turn to watch still watch over us? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, December 20, 2003 @ 07:56:01 UTC | i guess general system corp is a scam too.
john don't you think it strange that everyone but, silly old me has abandoned you? do ya' think they got tired of your ranting, or do you think they finally got the answers they were looking for?
it's kind of funny almost everyone has stopped posting here ever since this supposed letter went out to the supposed investors.
go shout from the highest mountain john, no one is listening here, except me. i have alot of time on my hands i love to hear you rant. ha!! |
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general system corp is a scam too (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Saturday, December 20, 2003 @ 08:54:55 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Just take a look. No phone. No address. Nothing verifiable on the whole page. The whois information says the site was registered by someone at a dentist's office. It's pure hokum. The people who said they looked into general systems are part of the scam, maybe even the ones behind it.
Why do you post anon? Are you the guy who checked into GSCI? |
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Re: i thought is was your turn to watch still watch over us? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, December 20, 2003 @ 09:35:43 UTC | People are waiting for the AG of the State of New Jersey to complete their investigation of this case. I write this as anonymous because I don’t feel strongly either way. At least John L. posts his name and contact information which is more than I can say for you and the other supporters. Why don’t you post your real name and contact information and let the AG contact you so this whole matter can be absolved or prosecuted?
There is nothing funny about an Attorney General’s investigation, which is about the only verifiable issue in this whole saga! If this is real then the investigation will end and the world will be a better place. If it’s not legitimate and a crime was committed then I hope there is some punishment for those who are involved.
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Re: non of you business (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, December 20, 2003 @ 12:26:12 UTC | when i buy a $3 battery at radio shack they ask me for my phone number. i refuse to give it to them. why would i give you my name? how does that make me more legit?
by the way, i spoke with the nj investigator, anon. i might add. he didn't seem to have a problem with it, why do you? |
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use a nom de guerre Diogenes (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Saturday, December 20, 2003 @ 12:38:16 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | If you sign in here, you can use a nom de guerre and this site keeps that secret. I elected to let everyone know who I am, but the guys who run this site would not have leaked any clues as to who I am (IP, etc). That way, if there is a back and forth, people can follow the conversation. I think Diogenes suits you.
It does make you more believable when you are willing to stand behind your claims with your own name. But that's a different issue. Anthony Marchetti, that guy's not Anthony, now Marchetti, not even Italian. What he says is worth listening to. But if he were on the level, why would he claim to be someone else? |
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Re: just be careful (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, December 20, 2003 @ 22:29:18 UTC | john, i might disagree with pretty much everything you say. but, i would never want to see any harm done to you or any other indivual who posts on this site.
i think you are being foolish giving out as much personal information about yourself as you do. there is absolutely no reason for it. advertising you have children!! stupid, just plain stupid!!
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Re: 30 pieces of silver (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, December 20, 2003 @ 14:10:21 UTC | | You bring up Brigham Young once again. What is the Mormon connection? |
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Re: captivated (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, December 20, 2003 @ 21:29:23 UTC | | JOHN!!!! what does this mean? now you have me interest. |
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Re:all done (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, December 22, 2003 @ 20:33:09 UTC | | i guess our all caring, all knowing pick. has given up on us. sorry to see you go, i guess... fairwell john! see you on the other side :-(( |
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rhetorical question (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, December 23, 2003 @ 14:59:54 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | Is there an actual question someplace or just rhetorical fluff? With the different anons, I have trouble following the threads. |
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Re: rhetorical question (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 24, 2003 @ 08:06:39 UTC | Galileo died in 1642 and was buried at church of Santa Croce (Florence) next to
Michaelangelo & Machiavelli. The epitaph he had placed on his tombstone was
"eppur Si muove" or "But the Earth does move!"
Galileo had the last word after all !
In 1983 the Church cleared Galileo's name and in 1992 the Church apologizes &
said it was wrong.
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Re: rhetorical question (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, December 29, 2003 @ 10:54:17 UTC | | All of you people are arguing about a machine that none of you have seen!!!!! The Genesis team from what I read is no more than 3 people. Genesis says they are producing 1 million units daily yet no companies have heard of them or the contracts they claim to have? Companies like GE are also working on this technology and they are not hiding on secluded farms outside of Meridian, Idaho. I contacted the AG's office and it openned my eyes. Through my own reading I have discovered that GWE is indeed affiliated with Dennis Lee. What a joke that is!!!! Maybe everyone should stop bickering and start looking into the true backgrounds of the GWE team!!!!! All you out there holding liscenses with GWE...... I would like your names for future reference when I need easy targets to take advantage of. You all would believe that Unicorns really do exist. Right about now the "Team" is probably heading out to Reno, Nevada to establish offshore accounts to steal our money. The GWE website is one big round-about..... Corporate Giving???? Prove it!! Edison Device???? Prove it!!! Company Headquarters??? Prove it!!!! Anyone nowadays can have a nice website. Hell, my neice made her own that could rival GWE's. Darren Shaw...... who are you???? what are your creds??? I did a google search on you and could only come up with the fact that you are a male, about 27-29, went to school in Arizona, looks to be unemployed except for the fact that he is his Nejhla's slave. CEO's have credentials....... Where are Darren's????? He is just a puppet!!! Hey, I know my money is gone. GWE has had so many chances to send me something other than canned responses to my questions. |
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Re: GWE coverage at PRWeb (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 @ 12:08:04 UTC | I assume that the release attempting to discredit GWE that went out on PRWeb on 12/11/03 was authored by Sterling D. Allen?
Curious as to why he did not Claim himself as the author on the article its self?!?! The post above is the only proof or evidence that he is the one who composed that article. If this technology is true than I hope he has deep pockets. All this hostility towards GWE is stemming from them not answering questions from the skeptics. Its a shame. |
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GWE coverage at PRWeb is Sterling's (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 @ 12:52:30 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | The article does show Sterling's authorship, but it's mixed in with the contacts list at the bottom so it doesn't stand out. And the Trenton byline is a little confusing, since Sterling wrote it from Utah. The formatting could have been clearer about who was writing and from where. Sterling doesn't have deep pockets, but there is no need to worry that the technology is for real.
The hostility stems from the investments they solicited. If they were just out preaching some alternative physics theory, Sterling would still be a booster. |
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Re: GWE coverage at PRWeb is Sterling's (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 @ 13:02:29 UTC | I found this comment by sterling on his site facinating....paticularly the third paragraph.
"I would like to request that if any of you have either personally tested or witnessed a validation test, or know someone personally who has, to please contact me. I will honor requests to remain anonymous.
Without such witnesses, I'm going to be inclined to side with the many people who have contacted me today saying that GWE makes the Tilley con look mild.
Sincerely,
Sterling D. Allan"
Basically anyone who has sen the technology has probably signed a NDA...so he is really asking people to break their NDA and provide him info. |
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Huh? (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 @ 17:31:30 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | An NDA ought to cover trade secrets. If Sterling asked people who had signed NDAs to describe secrets about the device, he would be asking them to violate their NDAs. But if he just asked for people to say that they had seen it, that GWE's representations are substantially correct and that they are unaware of any trickery, then that ought not violate any NDA. GWE tries to have it both ways, saying that lots of people who should understand what they are looking at (professors, etc) have witnessed their device to calm their investors. But if anyone tries to get the supposed witnesses story, then there is this BS about NDAs. Folks, in this situation, no news is not good news. If nobody will stand up and say that this thing works, it doesn't mean that it really works but that everyone is NDAed. |
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Re: A passion plea to Anonymous (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, January 15, 2004 @ 12:12:12 UTC | | Anonymous, Please stop talking to this idiot. He knows so little of the truth. Keep it that way. Let this thing play out. It's going to be better for us all. Except for (one can only hope) this obvious filibuster (Ha!). And a pathetic one at that. Let him stare at a blank screen, like he's been doing for the last month. |
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Re: Libia becomes anti-terrorist nation (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, December 20, 2003 @ 02:37:19 UTC | | Why?..Don't want to be caught in a spider hole..or is there more to it.??? |
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Chevrolet to Launch AN AMERICAN REVOLUTION add campaign?? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, December 20, 2003 @ 02:41:30 UTC | | Why is the most stawart, rock solid, Corporation in the USA launching an ad campaign with the word REVOLUTION in it? |
GENESIS (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, January 19, 2004 @ 11:07:56 UTC | The Genesis World Energy Logo has an "E" made up of three approximately horizontal lines. The Chevy ad campaign has a similar three-horizontal- line "E" in the way they spell REVOLUTION.
Is this a subtle hint by Chevrolet and General Motors that they are in on the GWE technology? |
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Re: GENESIS (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, January 19, 2004 @ 16:21:51 UTC | | yes! |
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