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A Passionate Plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy.
Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2003 @ 20:56:55 UTC by vlad
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Anonymous writes: This is a plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy.
Genesis World Energy,
If the information on your website is true then your company, in the near future, will totally change the world in what will seem like the blink of an eye. According to your website, hundreds of companies around the world are signing up to start mass producing your Edison Devices, HICEF's, and iGAS technologies. And soon they will start producing these devices.
But on the other hand you offer no proof or evidence to back up your statements. You offer no patents, technical papers, statements from other parties involved, testimonials from accredited individuals who have seen the devices at work, or any form of evidence that these devices are indeed "real".
Do I think your company is perpetuating a huge giant hoax? I don't know. There is NO evidence that you company is running a hoax. A few things do seem suspecious (and if you are telling the truth on your website you might even have good reason for these things), but there is no evidence. I sincerely hope that your company is telling the absolute truth! Because it would mean the world would be about to change in a great way! The energy crisis would be averted, we would no longer have any need for fossil fuels, and perhaps humanity would finally be in the position to truly enhance the human civilization.
But then again, there is no evidence that your company is NOT a hoax.
You see, we in the alternative energy field (both laymen and those that actually have done hands on research) have been burnt many times before by companies that make huge claims, but never back them up.
We have been played games with.
We have been manipulated.
We have been flat out LIED too.
We have been conned.
And this has been done to us over, and over, and over again!
We have been caught up so deeply in the hope of a truly alternative energy source that we want to at least give those who claim a breakthrough the benefit of the doubt.
However, everytime we have given that benefit of the doubt we have been burnt badly.
We are just good decent people who want a better world for others, ourselves, our family members and friends, and our decendents.
And an unlimited source of clean and cheap energy would at least be a huge leap in that direction.
We honestly are sick of so many nations fighting each other, killing each other, terrorizing each other, etc. There is so much curruption in all the governments on this planet it is impossible to know who are the good guys and who are the badguys.
But a clean and abundant energy source (like what your company has spoken about) would be a huge wakeup call for all humanity. It would tell the world, "Hey, here is the solution for all your energy needs. It is cheap, clean, and almost free. Now, why can't you realize that your all human and stop killing yourselves and start working together so that every human being on this planet can at least be FED!?"
Would the release of such a technology create a utopia? Of course not. The world is NEVER going to be perfect. But it would give the possibility of something *better*.
We simply are tired of having our hopes trashed by companies and individuals who are lying, playing games, conning, and manipulating others.
We simply want the TRUTH, and the evidence to back it up!
Many of us have become very cynical about the possibility of ever having such a technology. It has turned some individuals into diehard skeptics who trash, bash, and lie about companies such as yours. These individuals simply slander and attack anything that could represent a breakthrough. Now, don't get me wrong. I don't think these are really bad people. They are probably good people at heart and want good things for this world. But they have been burnt so badly they have lost the ability to have any small spark of faith or hope. They just don't want to see those of us who still have the ability to have faith and hope get hurt and even heartbroken yet again.
Now to get closer to the point of this message, if your website is truthful and all these technologies do exist and are so close to being produced then please throw us a bone of evidence. We need something to hold on too. Because if you don't then many of us may start to resent your company regardless if you are telling the truth or not.
Why would we resent your company if you are about to release a technology that could change the world? Because even though you may be telling the truth, you are playing a game with us! You are putting individuals who would LOVE to support and spread the word about your company in a horrible position.
Do you realize what it is like to try and give your company the benefit of the doubt while skeptics are attacking you, debunkers are slandering you, and we are being attacked ourselves when we have NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT EVEN ONE OF YOUR DEVICES ARE REAL?!
There are individuals trying to dig up any little bit of information they can and twist it against you. But we can do nothing, because you have not given us anything to hold on to!
Many of us can understand if you can't give out full technical date on your devices. But there must be something you can do to verify that your technologies exist and are real.
But if you don't do something to help those of us who are trying so hard to defend your company then you will loose ALL your supporters both NOW and if/when the devices start being sold around the world.
Because if you don't want to back up your technology and give some kind of evidence, it would have been best for you not even to have a public website.
Please remember that those of us who have tried to support you are human beings with emotions and feelings. We have been through a LOT for many years and we have a lot of emotional scars.
We want to support you, we want to encourage others to support you, and we want to spread the word about the great things your company will be doing for the world.
But one thing we ask for you to NOT do is screw with us. We have been SCREWED too many times already.
This means,
If you are legit, then please release some evidence of this! If you would release even just enough to prove that others have tested your devices and they functioned as they were supposed too, then you would have our unwaivering support! However, please don't leave us defenseless! We need some evidence!
Otherwise, even if/when your devices are proven real, you will have many, many people resenting your company. We of course will be thankful that the technologies are benefitting the world, but we will always remember how you left us alone to the skeptics and debunkers.
If you are not legit, then please just end this sick game. For the record, I am NOT saying that your company has LIED, CONNED, MANIPULATED, or done anything wrong, unlawful, or illegal.
And I am NOT saying that your company "is" playing a sick game.
But "if" you company is NOT legit then you are hurting more people than you can realize. You are hurting good, decent, loving, and caring people who simply want a better world.
If your company is NOT legit, then please just end this game. You are making huge, fantastic, and amazing claims! You are given many people HOPE for a better world! If you are NOT telling the truth, then please shut down your website because you are only going to be breaking the hearts of many innocent people.
We have been hurt before time and time again. Please don't hurt us again, please?
Then again, if you company is telling the truth and have oooodles and ooodles of contacts already in place it is NOT going to hurt your business AT ALL to give out some evidence that your technology is real.
Yes, at FIRST I could see why *some* secrecy would be needed. There are evil dark forces at work who have suppressed devices before. But now there is no reason why you cannot release some evidence.
This world needs hope, and if you would release some evidence you would be given so many people HOPE for a better world.
What are you waiting for? When are you planning to release proof of your devices? Are you going to wait until the day the first Edison devices are shipped to Home Depot's and Walmart's around the world?
For goodness sakes, please don't wait that long! Just the knowledge that such a technology is ON THE WAY could do a LOT for the world! With that sort of HOPE a LOT of good could be done BEFORE the devices are even mass distributed.
What are you waiting for? Do you want one huge media blitz that will put GWE in the memory of all humankind forever? If that is the case, please realize that with a technology as significant as yours you will get ALL credit you deserve whether you give some proof now and start building a public awareness OR if it is all announced at once.
But by releasing some evidence NOW you will be giving HOPE to many, many people.
In conclusion, please make a decision. Many of us are growing very tired and frustrated. Because our hearts YEARN to believe in your company and technologies. But we are simply left hanging without any evidence. Of course all we can do is wait and see what you decide. Because it is YOUR company and YOUR decision. And it is YOUR right to run it as YOU see fit.
But can you please give us a break, throw us a bone, and give us some scrap of evidence?
Because we would really appreciate it.
Thank you for all of your hard work, efforts, and the energy you have put into your project. If it is real you are truly doing a great service for all humanity.
As you can see, I for one am doing my very best to mentally give you the benefit of the doubt. But can you please give some evidence so that we can do something other than just have blind faith in your company?
Again, please make a decision, and quickly. Not later, but now. And if you have decided not to give out any information until you can buy the devices at Walmart then please be HONEST and TELL US THAT NOW!
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| "A Passionate Plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy." | Login/Create an Account | 226 comments | Search Discussion |
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Re: A Passionate Plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 06, 2003 @ 08:17:21 UTC | | My hope has already been abandoned. |
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Re: A Passionate Plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy. (Score: 1)
by Technophile on Monday, October 06, 2003 @ 10:09:51 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | Patience, Grasshopper.
You will not know for certain whether this is a hoax until next year when they have promised delivery of the first devices. So next June, go down to your local Home Depot, and all your questions will be answered one way or the other. |
Re: A Passionate Plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 @ 16:56:16 UTC | | Figures not assurances from the likes of 'CK' and 'knowledgeable'. Not that I was actually expecting any. |
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Re: A Passionate Plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy. (Score: 1)
by Technophile on Thursday, October 09, 2003 @ 11:02:57 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | | Your post has been much more productive in terms of answers from Anthony than I could have imagined, given GWE's bent for secrecy. Thanks. I apologize for the flip tone of my previous response. |
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Re: A Passionate Plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 @ 23:36:02 UTC | Hi,
This is Tybalt. You don't need to apologize.
However, I do hope that GWE will provide us with some solid evidence of the Edison Device before long. |
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Re: A Passionate Plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy. (Score: 1)
by ElectroDynaCat on Monday, October 06, 2003 @ 10:17:42 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | From reading GWE's publicity its difficult to discern whether they are claiming O/U or they have developed a much more efficient water electrolysis unit. I couldn't see any power input leads on their prototype, but hydrogen can still be generated by chemical means without electrical input. Still that means that the energy was generated somewhere else and stored as a metal plate in their device.Eventually that metal plate will revert back to its higher oxidation state and the energy to make the plate will have to be generated by some other means. If thats the case, its not an O/U device, just a storage battery that generates hydrogen. There's still the sticky problem of how to store hydrogen, a worthwhile field of investigation in any case. |
Battery or energy source (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 06, 2003 @ 11:05:58 UTC | Certainly there would be a lot of applications for compact batteries, but they don't say that they have a compact battery unit. You couldn't free our economy from its dependence on traditional energy sources using batteries (not even with massless, 100% efficient batteries). It's not the claim to make H2 on demand with little or no electrical input that makes GWE's claims OU claims. It's the claim that their energy cycle replaces fossil fuels in the economy that is an OU claim.
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Re: Battery or energy source (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 06, 2003 @ 12:01:03 UTC | I am not sure if I would call Genesis World Energy's technology overunity or not. Apparently, they have stated that in their cells there is a catalytic substance that can break apart the water into hydrogen very efficently. Some people have stated this means that this catalytic substance is a type of "fuel". Well, they have stated that the cells of the edison device would not have to be replaced for an average of 20 years. So I don't think that qualifies as fuel.
It just seems to me that they have found a way to unlock the hydrogen very efficently. Then by recombining the hydrogen and oxygen into water they are creating electricity.
Basically, I just feel that they are doing like they have stated and are tapping energy from the "molecular structure" of water.
They have stated that the Edison Device would only use 30 gallons of water over twenty years if only electricity was being generated (instead of producing hydrogen). That means that the water is being recycled over and over again. All the hydrogen you could get from thirty gallons of water could NOT be burnt to power a home for that long.
I think that just like with all matter, hydrogen (if you could convert it directly to energy) would have a huge ammount of energy. They say a marshmellow has the energy of a nuclear bomb. So I think that the Genesis Device might by tapping a small fraction of that. |
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Re: Battery or energy source (Score: 1)
by ElectroDynaCat on Friday, October 10, 2003 @ 19:11:39 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | | The energy hill for electrolsis of water into hydrogen is about 2.1 volts, and thats a lot of energy for a catalyst to come up with at room temperature. The latest theories on catalysis don't have any energy level even close to that value. You can increase the level by heating or electric current. I'm not saying they can't do it, but if they are, it would revise a lot of thinking. |
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GWE refuses to comment on Edison Device stock sales (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 @ 22:21:34 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | In 2002, stock was sold by United Fuel Cell Technologies by Patrick Kelly, who told investors that they were buying ownership of the Edison Device. He also told investors that GWE was a front company responsible for marketing the device, but that UFCT owns it. For months after GWE first said that they were not looking for investors, Kelly was using their site to sell stock. They have been aware of this since late last year at latest, but refused to comment. No legitimate business would allow someone else to sell their equity. Or claim they don't have investors when they do. There is no honest ground inbetween.
You don't need to wait till December 2004 when you find out that the number of Edisons produced is one million per day less than current GWE estimates. It's been as plain as day since GWE first refused to comment on the sale of stock in the Edison.
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Let’s set the record straight (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 @ 07:51:31 UTC | In accordance with the confidentiality agreement I signed, I have requested and received permission in writing from UFCT to write this. I'm a stockholder in UFCT and nothing you've said here, or in other things you written on other sites is true in my opinion. The technology I invested in with UFCT was based on creating electricity and excess hydrogen gas by electrolyzing water with solar panels. That is clearly pointed out in the investment documents I received. It is my understanding the solar technology and the Edison technology were created by the same team, share some common process related components and UFCT is being compensated for the use of the common components.
In other things you’ve written, you’ve stated that Kelly and General Systems were the creators of the technologies. The facts the way I understand them is that General Systems was involved in helping facilitate the assembly of resources for the team to use and Kelly’s role involved bringing relationships together to make happen. I'm sure both Kelly and General Systems wished they had invented the technology.
Based on my understanding, UFCT entered into an agreement with GWE to market the solar technology as a low cost alternative to the Edison Device and to market the Edison Device using the shared process components also used in the solar technology. As a result of the agreement with GWE, UFCT shareholders receive generous dividends on both the solar and Edison technologies because of the shared components. The arrangement is a win-win for everybody. The information I was given was that UFCT owns an exclusive license for the solar based technology, not the technology itself. The information GWE posted on its financial page confirms these facts for me.
Another point I want to make is that to the best of my knowledge, everyone that bought shares in UFCT did so under “Reg. D” of the securities act and were required to certify in writing that they were both “qualified” (financially) and “sophisticated” as defined by the regulation. That means everyone involved was required to be wealthy and sophisticated about investments. The documentation I received related to the investment were about the best and most detailed from a legal perspective I’ve ever seen, and my entire income comes from my investments.
By the way, I’m one of the lucky people that have seen both the solar device and the Edison device in operation and as a retired engineer, I can tell you that it obviously works exactly as claimed by GWE.
I for one am tired of you misrepresenting what has taken place and slandering people. I am also tired of you intentionally trying to cause problems with my investment where none exists. I am thrilled with my choice to invest.
Anthony Marchetti
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Re: Let’s set the record straight (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 @ 09:30:04 UTC | Anthony,
I share the same understanding as you, however the solar technology is a new twist for me. Inital meetings with Kelly were more on the e-cell and g-cell technologies. I am enthused that you actually saw the devices work and they work as stated. Curious though, did you actually receive a dividend on your UFCT stock yet? |
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Re: Let’s set the record straight (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 @ 10:03:20 UTC | Hi Anthony,
Thanks for the explanation. I was getting tired of listening to the sour pickle.
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Re: Let’s set the record straight (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 @ 10:41:26 UTC | I’m glad you had a similar understanding. I received word a couple of weeks ago that the first dividend should be released in the near future and may exceed what I paid for the stock. I understand that all shareholders will be receiving formal word of the dividend payment soon.
If you are a shareholder, you'll see the explanation of the solar technology in the write up near the beginning of business document. You’ll also see that it has the ability to use natural gas or some utility company electricity in addition to just solar if you only want to reduce your electric and gas bills.
I’ve seen the Edison device run a couple of times with and without batteries. A large number of the shareholders and invited guests were also at some of the viewings. Watching either of the systems work is eerie experience. It makes no noise, with the exception of a soft bubbling sound. You can see water flow into the gCells without bubbles and when it comes out it’s almost all gas bubbles and comes out so quickly that it looks like a laser light show as it catches the light. Anyone that says it’s a trick or a fraud is full of it. I was one of a few people they allowed to witness the assembly of the gCells before the Edison device ran, and the disassembly immediately afterwards. It’s just exactly what they say it is.
Cheers,
Anthony |
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Re: Let’s set the record straight (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 @ 11:14:17 UTC | Anthony, thanks for the additional information. While looking quickly through the "technology overview" section nothing is mentioned about the solar technology. The only technology discussed is the technology that mirrors what GWE is stating. To be honest I am not even completely convinced the two are connected.
Approximately, when did you purchase your shares? How did you get selected to be present for the demonstration? I would have done anything to witness that.
Thanks again.
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Re: Let’s set the record straight (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 @ 11:35:02 UTC | I think all of this is exciting. If we're working from the same document dated 9/10/01, the first reference to what I described before is at the bottom of page 11 in the note. The major explaination in on page 22, the "technology section".
The first sentence states "Our technology is based on utilizing relatively small amounts of sunlight, electricity, natural gas or LPG gas to separate the hydrogen and oxygen molecules contained in ordinary water."
The Edision device as described on the GWE web site uses no outside energy. To me, none of it really doesn't matters, UFCT makes money on both technologies. I bought my stock in mid 2001. When did you buy yours?
Anthony |
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Re: Let’s set the record straight (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 @ 11:56:27 UTC | Late 2001 and I have the same documents. Now I see the reference to sunlight...thanks. Actually on the GWE website it does say it uses outside energy to get the system started.
So, do you have knowledge that the technology of GWE is licensed from UFTC? The connection between the two was always an issue for me. Do you know of any upcoming demonstrations? You may want to review the term sheet again. |
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Re: Let’s set the record straight (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 @ 13:16:58 UTC | Good to see we're on the same page. Yes, I understand that the technologies I referenced earlier were licensed to GWE by UFCT. I also understand that the relationship between GWE and UFCT is contractual, with continual revenue flowing to UFCT in exchange for the license rights to the technologies I told you about.
Anthony |
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Re: Let’s set the record straight (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 09, 2003 @ 08:11:40 UTC | I looked at the term sheet. If you are talking about what I think you're talking about, I was told that the first round of UFCT shares was bought by the Genesis Team. I don't know when another demonstration will take place.
Anthony Marchetti |
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Re: Let’s set the record straight (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 09, 2003 @ 09:31:34 UTC | Anthony,
Nice piece in response to pickle.
Regarding the term sheet, I was talking about the 'Rights and Preferences'. |
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New UFCT info (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 @ 10:26:20 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | I'm not certain UFCT gives the same story to all the investors. The other investors were told they buying the Edison, not a solar system. The whole business case for expensive and inconsistent solar power would fall away if a free electrolysis machine were available, so the whole solar story seems like a red hearing. Can I ask when you bought your stock? Anyway, this is a change in spin only, the bottom line is that you as a UFCT investor have been told that you will receive dividends on Edison sales.
As an engineer, you ought to know that it's impossible for you to have seen that the Edison device works for 20 years as claimed by GWE.
We've been getting a lot of untraceable people posting baloney here (CK, NK, the Sgt.). So I have to ask. Why would a legitimate company elect to respond to criticism through a shareholder posting to a somewhat out of the way message board? Why not an official response? Why no statement from Kelly, or C&D letters from their lawyers? |
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Re: Let’s set the record straight (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 @ 13:13:52 UTC | Hello Anthony,
Thanks so much for your post! It was great have some of these matters cleared up. Of course I hope that GWE would release some evidence of their technologies officially. However, your post has really encouraged me that GWE may very well be legitimate. I too am tired of people twisting every little bit of info they can find. They have made me sick. I honestly don't believe in making accusations against an individual or a company when you don't have proof. Of course I agree with them and others that GWE needs to produce some official evidence of their devices.
Anthony, can you find out when and/or if GWE will produce any evidence supporting the Edison Device? I know many of us would really appreciate it. We need SOMETHING solid to hold on to.
Thank you so much!
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Re: Let’s set the record straight (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 @ 13:30:40 UTC | Your welcome. I've been wanting to get the misconceptions cleared up myself. The information I received is that production on Edison began in August. That was confirmed a couple of days ago in the "About Us" section of the GWE web site.
Their plan is to let the products speak for themselves when the licensees deliver them to market starting in Q1 of next year. Everything considered, I understand their logic in doing things that way and I agree with it. The method to their maddness is to create an unstoppable revolution without a bullet fired.
Anthony
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Re: Let’s set the record straight (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 @ 13:49:59 UTC | Sir, you seem to have a lot of information. Could you inquire as to the following?
· Why GWE held a press conference and why they have an Internet site if they don’t want publicity?
· Why would UFCT sell stock? According to all reports they have had a working product long before anyone bought into UFCT. Why did they need any additional funds?
· Were you ever issued any written notification linking UFCT to GWE? GWE’s site does not mention UFCT.
Please excuse the rapid fire questions.. I want to keep this email short. |
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Re: Let’s set the record straight (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 @ 14:32:18 UTC | This is the way I understand things:
1. GWE held the press conference, issued press releases and launched the website so that anyone that might have been interested in obtaining licenses would have an equal opportunity to obtain them. They also wanted to soften the blow to energy related industries when the technologies hit the market by giving them an equal chance to participate.
2. UFCT was issued the first license by the team a couple of years before the other technologies were ready and licenses were issued by the team to GWE. UFCT had committed to original key partners that it would position the company to go public, but later everyone decided not to. The stock was originally sold as part of that commitment in an effort to begin meeting future registration requirements. As you are probably aware, not much stock was allowed to be sold and the price was well below what should have easily been a healthy valuation.
3. Yes and no, I was sent a written update from UFCT in January that explained that UFCT's products would be manufactured and marketed by a third parties. I was told at about the same time that GWE was the third party. I can't imagine why GWE would feel it is necessary to discuss its relationships on the web site.
The thing that surprises me is that this information is readily available to UFCT shareholders. Why are these things mysteries?
Anthony
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Re: Let’s set the record straight (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 @ 14:43:46 UTC | | Thanks for the quick response. As I am not a shareholder I appreciate the info. |
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Ought to write an article (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, October 09, 2003 @ 01:37:15 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | All these replies are hard to follow.
You say you don't understand the mystery of the information presented to UFCT shareholders. Yet it's hard to reconcile your statements with GWE's. You say that UFCT has licensed technology from the inventors (whoever they are) that they are subletting to GWE. But GWE does not support that claim.
What I see is that there is a lot of communication that's not written. Your report of the decision not to go public is a little different than what I have been told. You don't mention the decision not to have a buy back. Human memory is not so good, so we end up with inconsistent accounts. There was even a rumor in February that UFCT shares would be exchanged for GWE shares. (Yes, I know that makes no sense, since GWEP id supposed to be a partnership. But it wasn't my rumor.) What's the same from investor to investor is that Kelly sold stock in the Edison device long before GWE came around, and that he had models of the device as props for the stock sale.
You really ought to write up your report of seeing the Edison. It's important to note what you measured, saw, were told or concluded. You saw bubbles and (?light?) from the g-cells, and concluded that they were operating as GWE states. But if you didn't have Watt meters on them, you don't know if they were externally powered. If you didn't weigh them before and after, you don't know how much they were used up (assuming a chemical reaction). What you saw and measured is more interesting than what you were told.
You are patient. A year after buying in, all you see is the website. A year later, updates to the website. In 2004 Q1, you are not going to get a 10 cent per share dividend (or a 1 cent per share dividend). How long are you willing to wait for something other than PR from Kelly? |
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Re: Ought to write an article (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 09, 2003 @ 08:07:32 UTC | I don’t know what you mean by “All these replies are hard to follow”, but I’m going to try and spell this out for you in terms that anyone should be able to follow.
You’ve posed an interesting analogy, but again you are off. The notice that GWE posted on its financial opportunities page completely supports my understanding of the transaction between UFCT and GWE. The comment you made about a buy-back is a mischaracterization of what I’ve been told directly. The company has made a standing offer to buy-back and retire the shares of anyone that wants out of the investment before revenue begins. I’ve heard nothing whatsoever about exchanging UFCT shares for GWE.
I think your comment about Kelly selling stock in the Edison device is an interesting fairytale, but I’ve been around this a long time and have been very interested in anything related to this. I’ve studied all the documentation and listened very carefully to everything I’ve been told. I’ve had in depth conversations will Kelly, been invited to several operational viewings and at no time prior to the GWE announcement in December of 2002, were the names Edison device, gcell or ecell ever mentioned. Kelly has never offered to sell me stock or ask me for money. Furthermore, I’ve never once seen Kelly offer to sell stock to anyone, ever. The only thing Kelly has every discussed in my presence is the technology and the advancements the team was making on it.
Regarding your statements about what I witnessed when the systems operated, you must think I wouldn’t understand what I’m seeing. Before I retired at age 41, I was a successful engineer that made my money in the technology field. I was there (with other UFCT shareholders) when the systems were assembled prior to the demonstrations and disassembled after the presentations. I witnessed the startup and I was allowed personally to measure the voltage and wattage of the various operating components including (most recently) the Edison device, the gcells and ecells using quality meters, which I took the liberty of calibrating myself. In one demonstration, I was able to extensively view, monitor and evaluate the operation of the Edison device over a period of a week. In every demonstration I’ve witnessed, the devices are obviously not in proximity to outside electrical sources, nor are they connected to anything from the outside. Once the bubble tanks are filled with water, even the garden hose is disconnected. Their operation is obvious and the bubbles do consist of hydrogen and oxygen, because they boil water in some the demonstrations using the gases created and stored in the bubble tanks.
Pickle, I’ve been very fortunate to be involved in this for over two years, not one. I have personally witnessed the very exciting advancements in the technologies over that period. I completely understand the nature of those advancements and how the systems work. The folks involved in the technology have always been very forthcoming and answered any question I posed without reservation. In some cases, I think they were to forthcomming and gave me more information then they should have. You say all I have is a web site to believe in, and I will not receive a dividend. The obvious difference between us is that I am knowledgeable about what I’m talking about and you are not.
I’ve done what I wanted to do; I’ve set the record straight in regards to the misstatement you make. You can believe what I’ve told you or not. I’m not trying to convince anyone, especially you. What you believe is up to you. I only hope that in the future before criticizing things you don’t know anything about, you at least get your facts straight. Have a nice life pickle; I truly hope you don’t have a stroke or coronary when you are eventually confronted with real facts.
Anthony Marchetti
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More questions on Edison observations (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, October 09, 2003 @ 09:51:49 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | About the financial side, I can hardly understand the distinction between what you say and what the other investors say. Kelly was selling stock based on ownership in the technology later called Edison. The solar thing was really played down in the stock sales in 2002 and 2003. Now GWE makes no mention of UFCT as an owner, which you consider consistent, and to me seems inconsistent. And about the buy-back, certainly not everyone has the same script. If UFCT were to send out a written notice of a buy-back offer, I am sure some investors would take them up on it.
Are you saying above that you checked the g-cells for electrical input, and that that it was very low? Good. Did you check the change in mass to know how much was used up? The magic trick here would be to use a chemical reaction such as metal burning in water to get H2. But this would not make sense as an energy device, and wouldn't last 20 years.
Were you measuring the electrical output of the fuel cells? Was it ever in the 500 Watt range described? How hot were the fuel cells? A fuel cell throws off 2X its electrical output as waste heat. If you did not feel a lot of heat, then you were not watching 500 W come off a fuel cell. |
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Re: More questions on Edison observations (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 09, 2003 @ 12:38:33 UTC | I believe you may be looking at the technology rights issues in the wrong light. Both technologies were demonstrated to UFCT shareholders because UFCT shareholders were to benefit financially from both technologies. If you are telling me that UFCT shareholders were lead to believe that UFCT would receive revenue from both technologies in 2002 and 2003 that would be correct based on my understanding as well. By holding rights to revenue from both technologies, combined with UFCT’s contract with GWE, UFCT can generate generous earnings for us shareholders with little overhead cost and risk. I don’t believe it was a matter of the solar technology being downplayed; it was more a matter of being able to also benefit from a more exciting technology as well.
Related to what I observed during the operational demonstrations, there was simply nothing in the gcell that could have been consumed. Within the gcell, there were only three items that I believe could possibly degrade over time. There is a flexible membrane with a heavy catalyst coating and two sheets of carbon material that are used to facilitate the transfer of electricity to or from the membrane. There were no other components within the cells that could possibly degrade or be consumed as a fuel. With the exception of the catalyst, I have enough experience with the other materials used in the construction of the gcells to know that they could not be consumed as fuel within the process. Furthermore, upon opening the gcells after extended operation, there were no visible changes in any of the materials.
As far as the voltage and amperage readings go related to the Edison gcells, during the startup, you can easily monitor both voltage and amperage going into the stacks. Each cell stabilized at slightly less at around 1.6v. It did not matter if only one gcell stack was fired up or three stacks were linked together and fired up at the same time, there was never more than 15amps drawn. During startup, the gcell stacks immediately begin consuming less voltage and amperage and when startup was complete, the batteries used to start the stacks are removed. Within five minutes after startup, the gcell stacks were producing 1.6v each on their own and the stacks were drawing “0” amps. Again, the same post-startup "0" voltage and amperage inputs were observed, regardless of whether one stack was fired up, or if three stacks were linked together and fired up at the same time. I was allowed to observe several different well thought out tests that made it easy to understand that I was indeed observing what I thought I was observing, and validate unequivocally in my mind that the apparent observations were factual. Based on the data I personally collected and analyzed, it was apparent that the amount of amperage present in the gcells after startup represents less that one percent of the energy contained in the resulting gases. In my opinion, something very significant is going on in the gcells.
Related to the ecells, we tested the system with a 10kw load for an extended period of time. If the coolant is turned off, the ecells stacks become very hot immediately. They would not allow the ecells to operate without coolant for more than a few seconds. However, with the coolant circulating at the above load, the coolant exiting the ecell stacks never exceed 205 degrees. I was told that was the optimum operating temperature. I won’t go into much more detail about this than to tell you that the heat from the ecells is recovered and used to improve the performance of the gcells. The less than one percent ratio I described above was calculated at this operating temperature. Lower operating temperatures reduce gcell performance somewhat, but I do not view that as problematic since the ecells consume much less gas when less amperage is generated. The water/gas exiting the gcells stayed consistently under 110 degrees.
Hope this helps bring more facts to light. I’m not asking you or anyone else to believe what I've told you, or to believe in Genesis. I think you and everyone else should keep an open mind and make a point of seriously looking into these products when they are available.
Anthony Marchetti, UFCT Shareholder
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Re: More questions on Edison observations (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 09, 2003 @ 14:51:21 UTC | For one I would like to thank you Anthony for your willingness to share.
Many of us have tried very hard to be open minded about Genesis World Energy, but were slowly becoming skeptical. Your explanations have really cleared up many areas for me, and I believe that you are telling the truth.
I believe that this technology is going to change the entire world. Just imagine in just a couple years when practically every how has an Edison Device, more and more cars are being equiped with HICEF devices, and the world demand for oil has plummeted.
The enviroment will be cleaner, we will have cheap abundant energy, the chance to build a better world, the political power structure of the world will change so we will no longer have to fight in wars for oil and EVERY nation can be TOTALLY energy independent (unless perhaps you are in the middle of a desert).
What did Genesis World Energy say to you about the ramifications of this technology?
Again, THANK YOU SO MUCH for posting to this board. |
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Re: More questions on Edison observations (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 09, 2003 @ 16:15:54 UTC | Thank you so much for your kind words in support for my efforts in bringing the facts out. I sincerely share your enthusiasm for the promise of a better future and a better world.
The ramifications of the introduction of this technology could be staggering, but we’ll only know that when the time comes. The possible ramifications is the major issue behind GWE’s strategy of keeping everything as low profile as possible and letting the skeptics continue to blow off steam until the products are in mass production and available on the market throughout the world. I just couldn’t stomach the misstatements anymore and I convinced the people with authority, to let me try to set things straight a little. They have allowed me to do this because the Edison technology is in production now and it will be in the hands of the public soon.
I believe the team literally put as much time and effort into analyzing the issues and developing their strategies in relationship to delivering the technologies to the world, as they spent creating the technologies themselves. Think for a moment how whole political structures, industries, financial institutions and governments with enormous revenues tied to traditional energy might react if anything related to this was done prematurely, before it is in the hands of the citizens of the world and they can fight back. I know it sounds grandiose, but I have sense that our children’s futures may be in the team's hands.
I get the impression that you have a good sense of all of these things as well.
Anyway, thank you again for supporting my efforts. If nothing else, the people that gave me permission to do this will see that some positive benefit came from it.
Anthony Marchetti
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Re: Great Discussion (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 09, 2003 @ 16:32:35 UTC | | Wow, this was a great discussion. Its a shame that I got here at the end but it looks like the questions I had, have been answered in these posts. I heard a saying sometime back and it stuck in my head because it said it all. "We did not inherit the earth from our parents, we borrowed it from our children." I thought that was a powerfull statement but thought it could never be realized with all the greed and lust for power that runs rampant in our world. Finally there is a beacon of hope, and im sure once this technology gets out there, I assume it will cause some economic turmoil and have an unimaginable impact on all our lives. Its almost scarey to think what the current oil power houses will due out of desperation and fear to protect their interests. Only time will tell. |
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Re: Great Discussion (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 10, 2003 @ 06:36:22 UTC | Imagine a scenario where you go to sleep one night in the world we live in today, and waking up the next morning to discover (without warning) the news that these products are accessible to people all over the world. It could start a revolution of thought that might never end. Change that was unimaginable yesterday is now our reality.
The people I’ve been privileged to meet that are part of the Genesis Team are kind hearted, gentle people that believe beauty, promise and potential reside within every human spirit.
Your quote really struck me, because I’ve heard something similar before. When I asked one of the key Genesis Team members what drove their passion for what the Team was doing, he said “I’m doing it because I feel it’s our responsibility to give our children and all future generations of children a planet that will not die because past generations didn’t have the courage to make responsible choices. We want to leave them a legacy of hope and the knowledge that every person has the power to choose to make a difference.”
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I’m going to have your quote engraved on a plaque and give it to the Team as a gift.
Anthony Marchetti
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Re: Ought to write an article (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 09, 2003 @ 10:20:39 UTC | Interesting quote Anthony:
"... has never offered to sell me stock or ask me for money." I hope that can be validated and confirmed. Who then sold you and others their shares? Just to clarify. Are you saying that there was no mention of stock sale or opportunity to invest at the demonstrations you attended? Were these demonstrations for established stock holders only?
Thank you for the information.
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Re: Ought to write an article (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 10, 2003 @ 11:58:07 UTC | | Good question. Anthony? |
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Re: Ought to write an article (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 10, 2003 @ 15:12:59 UTC | Anthony, could you please elaborate on the following quote from above:
"The company has made a standing offer to buy-back and retire the shares of anyone that wants out of the investment before revenue begins."
Could you please outline the process for buy-back in detail so that the skeptics could follow them and cash out?
Thank you in advance for the information.
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Re: Ought to write an article (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 10, 2003 @ 17:11:36 UTC | I actually checked on this for you. All you have to do is send them a letter to the address listed on the documents and tell them you would like to rescind the purchase.
They will send you the paperwork to sign and return.
Anthony Marchetti
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Re: Ought to write an article (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 10, 2003 @ 17:03:00 UTC |
Thank you for taking the time to seek the facts.
My statement that you quoted ("... has never offered to sell me stock or ask me for money."), is absolutely correct in relationship to me. I was also present on a number of occasions when other people also asked him about buying stock and he told them that he wasn’t aware what shares were available from UFCT, if any. I don’t suppose that would be difficult to confirm. I purchased my shares from UFCT directly.
I have never once heard any mention of stock sales at a demonstration of the technologies. I reiterate, never. If you are thinking the purpose of the demonstrations were fund raising events, they were absolutely not.
Because of relationship with them, I'm fairly knowledgeable about what has taken place so far and to the very best of my knowledge there have only been three types of demonstrations:
1. Filming systems in operation (including for documentaries)
2. Shareholders only
3. For invited dignitaries, such as CEO’s or board members of large corporations, university professors, community leaders, state and federal government representatives, and representatives of the governments of other nations.
Anyone attending the demonstrations was required to sign a very strict confidentiality agreement before the demonstration. That means I have signed a lot of confidentiality agreements. .
Anthony Marchetti
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Re: Ought to write an article (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 10, 2003 @ 22:12:42 UTC | Thank you for the response. In regards to the parties involved, did your check go directly to UFCT? If so then the individual you mentioned has nothing to do with this whole matter, at least in regards to financing.
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Re: Ought to write an article (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 13, 2003 @ 08:33:39 UTC | Thanks again Anthony.
So then the claims that there were “Demonstrations” held in NJ with boxes of investment materials are false? Also, please address the issue of who sold you your shares and who the check was made out to if you can. It just seems that there are a lot of people claiming to own tens of thousands of shares of UFCT.
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Re: Let’s set the record straight (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 @ 10:38:50 UTC | | Thanks Anthony!!! We're with you. |
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Re: A Passionate Plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 09, 2003 @ 16:48:42 UTC | I would like to send special thanks to Anthony Marchetti for providing some very much needed information about the GWE technology. I must admit, after falling for a hoax before (see the 'Burning Water' thread in the Devices forum), I had lost most of my faith in these claims.
If this is for real, which I sincerely hope, then I will anxiously await the release of the devices and pray that my automobiles qualify for the HICEF conversion.
If not.... well, no need to go down that road again as it is the only one I've been down so far.
Hydrone.
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Re: A Passionate Plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 10, 2003 @ 17:22:26 UTC |
Thank you for Hydrone your thoughtful comments. I’m glad you found the information helpful. Again, I’m not trying to convince anyone to believe me or in Genesis. Just keep your mind open and be patient while things turn out the way they are meant to.
Anthony Marchetti
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Anthony's Edison observations (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Sunday, October 12, 2003 @ 13:02:45 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Promoting because it's too important to be N replies in.
As far as the voltage and amperage readings go related to the Edison gcells, during the startup, you can easily monitor both voltage and amperage going into the stacks. Each cell stabilized at slightly less at around 1.6v. It did not matter if only one gcell stack was fired up or three stacks were linked together and fired up at the same time, there was never more than 15amps drawn. During startup, the gcell stacks immediately begin consuming less voltage and amperage and when startup was complete, the batteries used to start the stacks are removed. Within five minutes after startup, the gcell stacks were producing 1.6v each on their own and the stacks were drawing “0” amps. Again, the same post-startup "0" voltage and amperage inputs were observed, regardless of whether one stack was fired up, or if three stacks were linked together and fired up at the same time. I was allowed to observe several different well thought out tests that made it easy to understand that I was indeed observing what I thought I was observing, and validate unequivocally in my mind that the apparent observations were factual. Based on the data I personally collected and analyzed, it was apparent that the amount of amperage present in the gcells after startup represents less that one percent of the energy contained in the resulting gases. In my opinion, something very significant is going on in the gcells.
Actually, carbon can be used as a fuel process that converts water into free H2 (and CO). A Google search for "bingofuel" will turn up Naudin's demonstration of an H2 and CO powered ICE turning a generator that sends current through carbon rods in water to produce the gas it's burning. It can't be ruled out that Carbon is consumed without weighing it, but that's not the most obvious source of outside energy, the heavy "catalyst" coating that's consumed is. Hydrogen is not the most Oxygen loving element, and many metals will burn under water. If you didn't weigh the "catalyst" or check the precipitate, you don't know how much was consumed and you don't have any reason to suppose that it would last for 20 years.
Related to the ecells, we tested the system with a 10kw load for an extended period of time. If the coolant is turned off, the ecells stacks become very hot immediately. They would not allow the ecells to operate without coolant for more than a few seconds. However, with the coolant circulating at the above load, the coolant exiting the ecell stacks never exceed 205 degrees. I was told that was the optimum operating temperature. I won’t go into much more detail about this than to tell you that the heat from the ecells is recovered and used to improve the performance of the gcells. The less than one percent ratio I described above was calculated at this operating temperature. Lower operating temperatures reduce gcell performance somewhat, but I do not view that as problematic since the ecells consume much less gas when less amperage is generated. The water/gas exiting the gcells stayed consistently under 110 degrees.
Where is the heat venting off to? Check out the Edison device photos. There is no radiator shown or listed in the "parts not shown". Did you see an obvious radiator venting heat out of the box? I wonder why it's not in the pictures. |
Re: Anthony's Edison observations (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, October 12, 2003 @ 16:10:12 UTC | I do not understand what you meant by “Promoting because it's too important to be N replies in.” If by that you mean that I am promoting, again, you can believe me or not, I am not interested in convincing you or anyone else. I feel it’s important for readers to have access to a balanced perspective from someone that is knowledgeable about the issues you have raised.
I questioned the carbon issue and they demonstrated to me that the process worked without it. I do not believe the catalyst is “burned” or consumed, but rather looses its potency over time. I am personally aware of Edison systems that have been operating continuously under load for well over a year with negligible losses in performance. Based on my analysis of the figures, if the performance trend I observed remains consistent over time, GWE’s projected system life may be realistic.
I believe that the process analysis written by Douglass A. White, Ph.D. is more along the lines of what is happening in the gcells, although I am aware of some key differences between Dr. White’s analysis and what I personally observed. In my opinion, the operation of the gcell is a combination of chemistry and component design. While there were very few separate components within the reaction area, the internal design elements of the reaction areas themselves are very complex and precision.
Heat was not vented off. The temperature of the water entering the gcell stack under load ranged from 202’ to 205’ (depending on ambient air temperature) and the water/gas temperature exiting the gcells ranged from 107 to 110’. This was easily confirmed by me, and will be easy to confirm by consumers when the systems are on the market. The only place the heat could have been removed was in the gcell process itself, because there are no provisions for cooling the gcell stack, as there are in the ecell stacks.
Pickle to put something else to rest, in other things you’ve written you seemed to cast doubt regarding the skill and credentials of the Team members. I’m not authorized to disclose names, but I will tell you I am personally aware that some of the team members that contributed to the project are world renowned and are highly regarded in scientific circles for their significant discoveries while working for large corporations and governments.
It is my feeling that the names of these individuals will eventually be released by GWE.
Anthony Marchetti
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Easy to verify if a house runs on Edsison (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Sunday, October 12, 2003 @ 17:06:20 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | About the house that's been using an Edison device for a year, ask for the electric bills. In the long history of perpetual motion machine scams, nobody has ever gone to the trouble of getting an electric bill consistent with their claims. The bill should be low, mostly negative, except maybe for a small positive bill January or August.
Good to eliminate the carbon possibility, though it seemed inconsistent with the rest of your description (no power input once warmed up. Carbon would require constant low voltage electrical input.).
The notion that the "catalyst" does not get used up but "loses it's potency" just doesn't make sense. Either the precipitate falls out, in which case you might not see it if you did not look in the water filter. Or the film itself oxidizes, which might be hard or easy to see. If you've not weighed the "catalyst" before and after, you just don't know.
The UFCT people are always being told that this or that important person or CEO is involved in UFCT. But the only one that's verified is the big brother of the former CEO of a veterinary hospital system. Why not talk to some of the other people independently and ask them to confirm their involvement in UFCT? Clearly, when the GWE page went up and until April, it was written by someone without the technical education required to make sense of an electric bill (10 KW/day of power, etc.). |
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Re: Easy to verify if a house runs on Edison (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 13, 2003 @ 07:02:00 UTC | In the long-term tests, the electricity and gas service from utility companies is totally disconnected, so there would be no bills. The point of the long-term tests is to learn how the systems react and perform throughout a range of operating conditions. It was easy for me to verify this, since the utility company electrical and gas connections are obviously completely removed on the customer side.
The carbon is used as a surface conductor that covers membrane and is used to distribute voltage and current produced within other internal processes of the gcell. The carbon can be replaced with other conductive materials and yield similar results.
I think we may be splitting hairs related to “using up” or “losing potency”. If you prefer to think of the catalysts as being used up, your point would support your conclusion. They use the term “losing potency” and based on what I observed, I would tend to agree with their description. In my opinion, the weight change of the coated membrane would be a valid variable only after the systems have been operating for awhile (let’s say from the end of year one to the end of year two), because the manufacturing process involved in applying the catalyst to the membrane may not bind all the catalyst materials to the surface.
Your statement about UFCT shareholders being told that “this or that important person or CEO” is involved in UFCT is news to me. I’ve never been told that and nobody has ever hinted that to me in any way. I think somebody may be getting information confused with the description of some of the people that contributed to the Genesis Team. I have personally spoken with people that meet the criteria I referenced yesterday as being part of the Genesis Team and their previous accomplishments are well known.
From what I understand, the original wording related to the performance information on the website was hastily changed at the last minute. When I ribbed some of the Team Members about it they laughed and said it was a classic example of writing by committee.
Anthony Marchetti
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Easy to verify if a house runs on Edison (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Monday, October 13, 2003 @ 10:33:29 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Why would anyone disconnect from the grid if they could do a more severe stress test by selling power back? This makes no sense. Drive by the house to make sure it's not abandoned and then get the electric bill. It wont be 0. As long as you are looking at paperwork, ask if they have paid their taxes yet. As of Feb, they were behind.
The "catalyst" might be bound in with some material that binds it to a structure. But the mass changes if it's material from the surface that's used up or material that seeps in from the center. It's used up either way. It might complicate the analysis a little that "catalyst" and glue are both getting used up, but the mass changes either way. There is no reason to wait a year to look for the change in mass since a g-cell is not going to run a week under full load. Weigh it, run it for a weekend, and weigh it again.
As for the ribbing of the blunders on the page, keep it up. The first paragraph of the technology section still uses Watts as a measure of energy (though they changed the word to "electricity", which in this context is even wronger). It was not until April when they hired Vince Jenks they got most of the bogus units out, so the conclusion that Vince was the first person on the Team who could read an electric bill is not unwarranted. If you've followed the discussion here, the Genesis site once had in its Q&A that the nonsense KW/day units were there because they wanted to be vague.
Here is a comment made by someone calling himself a UFCT investor who has not contacted me directly. It's a typical unverifiable appeal to authority similar to the one that seems to have influenced Anthony above. But it shows how the story given to investors changes from investor to investor. Or maybe the investors are "getting information confused".
"Interestingly enough I invested in this as a friends and takers initiative originaly under the name of United Fuel Cell Technologies, (California) It was offered through an investment firm in New York. I was recently informed that it was sold to the company working on the Edison Device. I too find this web page very interesting since I just located it today 2/8/03. I'm not a Techie, maybe just a lemming/sucker!! What peaks my interest is why havn't they applied for SEC filings, or gone public to further their studies, or have they received enough funding through friends and takers to continue the project. It's my understanding that Microsoft and Hewlett/Packard among other large corpoations have also invested in this company. "
--B Davis
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Re: Easy to verify if a house runs on Edison (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 13, 2003 @ 14:03:49 UTC | Anthony, John L.
Have either of you gotten to the bottom of the web registration name change (company and individual) and why no contact phone numbers are real? What have you uncovered on the investment side? Can you put together a more comprehensive picture of if/when stock was being sold and to whom by whom? What happened to the front people who were at the press conf?
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Re: Easy to verify if a house runs on Edison (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 13, 2003 @ 17:02:23 UTC | This is motsb(man on the street boise). A few months ago I went to GWE's PR Company "Guy Rome and Assoc" in the Hoff Building just across from Idaho's State Capital Building. 1 or 2 floors directly above Congressman
Butch Otter's office, as a matter of fact. I think I caugt them off guard, because soon I was chatting with Diane Echevaria(GWE Press Contact). She was very kind and personable. She really sounded like she sincerly believed in the legitamacy of GWE and their claims. We talked a while and I bid her "Good Day" then, I proceeded up a flight of stairs and lo and behold, I am now in Micheal Boss's office. Micheal was the spokesman at the initial press release at the Grove in Downtown Boise. He was also very kind and cooperative and appeared to be candid...My understanding of what he told me was:
That Genesis approached him for hosting a presentation.
They demonstrated the device to him.
It was operating in a house in a suburb town of the Boise area. I will leave this town un-named...
He said that he had no reason or evidence that what they claimed was false or misleading. That is his basic criteria for presentations he is involved in. So he did it.(Dec 5 Boise). He also added that to date he still had not come across anything that would indicate to the contrary...(This was midsummer and we had not heard anything new on GWE's Website for a while) He DID state that he perhaps would have liked to have seen more from them since then to further validate his initial observations.
In the face of GWE's past posting that they were basically NOT CONNECTED with UFCT......My question for Anthony(to legitimise your claimed involvement in not just UFCT.... but ALSO GWE.) is...
What was the name of that suburb that Micheal Boss first saw the Edison Device demonstrated?
Anthony...if you are now the Boise area...perhaps I could have a chat with you eye to eye so I can see that you are flesh and blood like Diane and Micheal?
Anthony ...Please Tell Me this... Will preopproved potential liscensees have to come up with the liscense fees without beforehand witnessing:
One...GWE going PUBLIC in some scale to the size of thier claims.
and two...Real, reputable and public endorsements from known citizens of irrefutable qualifications AND notoriety? motsb
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Re: Easy to verify if a house runs on Edison (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 13, 2003 @ 20:39:23 UTC |
Okay motsb, I’m short on time so please excuse the brief answers:
1. Perhaps I'm wrong, but GWE has never commented about its relationship with UFCT or anyone else for that matter.
2. Eagle - I'm not in Idaho.
3. I believe licensees will receive Edison evaluation systems which they can independently test and approve before they pay anything.
4. I understand it will be up to the licensees to demonstrate the systems to the public and to satisfy the public’s curiosity once each of their production systems are approved for sale by GWE. At that point they will be permitted to announce their relationship with GWE to the world.
Anthony Marchetti
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Re: Easy to verify if a house runs on Edison Motsb (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 13, 2003 @ 22:41:47 UTC | Thank you for your reply..Anthony
Despite GWE's efforts to dissiminate production and liscensing and ect. through out the world, when the news finally breaks and people are running these devices in public, the entire worlds balance of power in all its forms(political, economic, military ect.) will be shifted and concentrated in the United States in 1 or 2 tiny companies and perhaps more so or less with certain individuals in this company. The energy world will be effectively RULED "defacto" by the secretive GWE/UFCT.
This is incredible power and I'm sure you have the utmost faith in your team, but things ALWAYS change. What kind of reassurance or safegaurds can the world have that this tremendous power will not be abused or missused down the road at some time. What is to keep you from ruling the world? How long will you rule it, how long will GWE keep the secret of how the Edison Device works all to itself. How long will GWE rule the world? - MOTSB |
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Re: Easy to verify if a house runs on Edison Motsb (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 @ 10:50:42 UTC | | MOTSB - Don't you think that is a little extreme. Based on what I read, the tone that I got from the GWE site was more for helping humanity, not control it. We are faced with a major energy crisis and I believe that GWE is only trying to right the wrong. I don't believe that the worlds power would shift. I remember a long time ago on GWE's or WEM's web site that the United States Government was not allowed to license the technology. If they were permitted to, then you can begin worrying about the balance of power. The US government would use the technology as a bargining chip and turn everyone into their puppets. I don't understand what kind of power this would give GWE/UFCT? Other then having the final decision to allow other countries to license the technology (Which according to their web site 140 nations already have applied for licenses) what other power would they have. |
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Re: Easy to verify if a house runs on Edison Motsb (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 @ 15:18:07 UTC |
Thank you for your balanced perspective. You are exactly right about the provision related to the government. They will also not allow any aspect of the technology to be used in weapons. I have knowledge of the fact that they have flatly turned down lucrative offers related to use their hydrogen on demand technology as a propellant for a new type of deadly gun.
I also happen to know for a fact that the Team has gone to great lengths to ensure that the technologies and the resources that come from them will be used only to benefit humanity. What I’m sure very few people probably are not aware of is that the Team has made permanent arrangements to commit a minimum of 75% of all the future money they might make towards advancing emerging technologies and science; humanitarian causes; supporting education; and supporting charitable causes.
As an example of their motives, I took the following from the licensing section of the GWE/WEM website. Does this sound like people that have evil intentions?
Licensing will be granted to licensees within nations that are striving to provide its citizens with the following:
1. Freedom Of Religion:
a. Citizens of the country possess equal opportunities to either exercise the faith of their choice, or to not worship any faith if they choose.
2. Not Engage In Discrimination Based On:
a. Gender
b. Religion
c. Nationality
d. Race
e. Sexual Preference
3. Provide Basic Civil Liberties To Its Citizens:
a. Provide its citizens with freedom of speech.
b. Provide fair and equal access to justice, legal remedies, and legal representation.
c. Not imprison its citizens without equitable due process.
4. Qualifying Countries Cannot Engage In Acts Of Terrorism:
a. Does not support or facilitate terrorist acts (financially or physically) within or outside its borders.
b. Does not engage in acts of genocide.
Pickle and motsb are like so many people today. They have become naturally cynical about everything and they have good right to be. I completely understand that for most people it is difficult to believe that anyone might actually want to do something kind and positive for the world without money and power as a motive. Regardless of whether they are successful in bringing these technologies to the world, being around the Genesis Team has taught me something that I wish everyone could learn; it all comes down to making choices and sticking with them, showing up no matter what you face, being prepared to fail and try again and not comprising.
To the best of my knowledge, they rarely tell anyone this, but during the process of developing these technologies, they literally preformed thousands of tests involving probably as many variables. Almost anyone would have considered the vast majority of those tests absolute failures. Instead of giving up, they kept systematically addressing the variables and sought to learn as much as possible from every test. They kept moving forward until they were successful.
Best Wishes to All,
Anthony Marchetti
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then why postpone paying taxes? (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 @ 16:25:58 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | You mentioned that GWE was postponing the realization of income to defer taxes out of this year. This was given as a reason there will be no dividend this year. Well if they ran 1000 tests, they should have plenty of accrued losses to write off. And if they are so gung-ho to help everyone out, how about just making their money and paying their taxes? As I stated before, when I checked January, UFCT was already behind in the franchise taxes due to Delaware. Because of the decision to sell tens of millions of shares at pennies each, instead of thousands of shares at thousands each, there would have been a lot due. Have they started paying those yet? |
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Re: then why postpone paying taxes? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 @ 17:56:13 UTC | | The IRS frowns on currently deducting accrued losses; they allow only realized losses. So if UFCT were to file a federal return their 'accrued' losses would be disallowed and may be used to offset future taxable income. But I think they still may be considered in the start up phase so all these start up expenses and 'accrued' losses would be accumulated and amortized when business actually begins...I can go on and on with this but I won't bore you with the laws of taxation. Also, the maximum Delaware franchise tax liability is 150,000 per year based on capitalization. I'm not sure how many shares are actually authorized so I cannot do the calculation but what's the worst case, in the hole 300,000?? When the revenues come in, a letter and a check to Delaware will clear this all up. So, what was your point again??? |
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Re: Easy to verify if a house runs on Edison Motsb (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 @ 10:36:56 UTC | With all do respect. What are you saying?
That Libya can license the technology (they now chair the human rights council in the UN and as such help to set the international definitions and standards for human rights), which in turn they could weaponize while the US couldn’t? To suggest that the US would approach Genesis to make a “gun” and then be refused is ridiculous. If there was a technology that could be so devastating in a weaponized format it would be seized and rightly so! How naïve do you think we are?
I also find it ironic that the very company, which was solicited to help promote this product, touts its involvement in military contracts. If Genesis is so righteous why did they engage this company?
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Re: Easy to verify if a house runs on Edison Motsb (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 @ 22:51:46 UTC | MOTSB(man on the street boise)
Hey I got an idea...to shut that chipotle_pickle buddy of mine up once and for all!....Anthony, since I'm in the area, hell my brother lives in Eagle and I'm in West Boise. Why don't you set it up for me to see this thing....I've been here along with pickle and John from the beginning...ever watching...ever wary...on the outside ever cynical....on the inside ever hopeful. Come on ...Lets have some fun! I'll sign whatever. I'm a pretty safe security risk. My family has lived AND SERVED here in Idaho 150 years...Family referances include a Federal District Judge, a US marshal and the most notorious attorny in the state of Idaho.
You can tell Diane and Micheal my little friend says hello! She says that Diane was pretty and nice.
Maybe my little friend can come too? -MOTSB
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YUP. It certainly would show me (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 @ 23:00:12 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Paying a dividend would show me. Independent tests on the Edison would show me. Paying a divedend would show me. Heck, even paying the $300k franchise tax to Delaware would show me *something*. It would be so easy for a legitimate company to put me in my place, yet GWE/UFCT/GSCI/... don't.
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Re: Easy to verify if a house runs on Edison Motsb (Score: 1)
by MOTSB on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 @ 08:06:54 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | "when the news finally breaks and people are running these devices in public, the entire worlds balance of power in all its forms(political, economic, MILITARY ect.) will be shifted and concentrated in the United States in 1 or 2 tiny companies and perhaps more so or less with certain individuals in this company. The energy world will be effectively RULED "defacto" by the secretive GWE/UFCT"
I thought the military implictions were rather obvious and I'm not talking about a gun.
Example from history:
WW2..." The German Blitzkreig" is unstoppable, but Rommel ran out of gas.
Can you imagine a military machine that had no supply lines? Who determines which countrie's or military organisations get to run on water?....
The military advantage would be GREAT.
If the key component(that is only manufactured in the states by GWE) is witheld from a country then they would have to revert back to fossel fuels or come to a grinding halt in 10 or 20 years...That is
A LOT OF POWER even if GWE chooses not to use it or abuse it. Commmitees will have to be formed...
There would be safeguards that the public would be entitled to....It is just too staggering to believe that the military isn't all over this.....if they took it serious I guess...It just seems a little surreal don't you think? |
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Re: Easy to verify if a house runs on Edison (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 13, 2003 @ 15:09:10 UTC | One question.
If this technology is being sold throughout the world, why are there no comments or even mention of this technology outside the United States? No comments from other countries about the technology or it implications on its people. The lack of wide spread comment cannot be justified with the "NDA" response since its terms would not be binding to many parties outside the US. I find it hard to believe that millions of these devices will be used oversees and there is not one mention of it on the web outside the .org and .com spaces in the US. |
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Re: Easy to verify if a house runs on Edison (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 13, 2003 @ 20:56:54 UTC | GWE is keeping a very tight lid on everything until the products are on the market. If anyone discusses it in advance of products being released to market, they will lose their licenses and could face ongoing legal issues. Among other things, GWE doesn’t want anyone claiming to be related to the technologies until they can prove they can deliver acceptable products to consumers.
Sorry for the brief answer, I'm having a busy this week.
Anthony Marchetti
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Re: Easy to verify if a house runs on Edison (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 @ 08:28:08 UTC | Thanks. I have a concern. So GWE will blame the licensees for not being able to produce working models. This sounds familiar and not in a good way.
Thanks again Anthony! |
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Re: Easy to verify if a house runs on Edison (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 @ 22:54:39 UTC | MOTSB(man on the street boise)
Hey I got an idea...to shut that chipotle_pickle buddy of mine up once and for all!....Anthony, since I'm in the area, hell my brother lives in Eagle and I'm in West Boise. Why don't you set it up for me to see this thing....I've been here along with pickle and John from the beginning...ever watching...ever wary...on the outside ever cynical....on the inside ever hopeful. Come on ...Lets have some fun! I'll sign whatever. I'm a pretty safe security risk. My family has lived AND SERVED here in Idaho 150 years...Family referances include a Federal District Judge, a US marshal and the most notorious attorny in the state of Idaho.
You can tell Diane and Micheal my little friend says hello! She says that Diane was pretty and nice.
Maybe my little friend can come too? -MOTSB
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Re: Anthony's Edison observations (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 13, 2003 @ 12:24:12 UTC | Anthony,
With GWE producing Edison Device components since August 19, 2003 and Device manufacturers beginning their production in early 2004, does GWE have any plans to do an offical media launch by the close of 2003? Or shortly after?
From previous responses, it appears the revenue stream has started from the technology license. Other than "really soon", when do you think the revenues will start trickling down to the shareholders?
Thanks. |
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Re: Anthony's Edison observations (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 13, 2003 @ 21:07:52 UTC |
It’s my understanding that GWE has elected to let the licensed manufactures capture the lime light and will not pursue media coverage on its own.
As far as revenue stream matters go, I don’t have access to specific information on that. I was recently told that dividends may start being distributed before the end of the year, but it’s also my understanding that GWE wants to minimize income this year for tax purposes.
Anthony Marchetti
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White's analysis (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 @ 11:25:04 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Anthony, above you say:
I believe that the process analysis written by Douglass A. White, Ph.D. is more along the lines of what is happening in the gcells, although I am aware of some key differences between Dr. White’s analysis and what I personally observed.
Which White analysis was that, he had two. One of them was that the gCell was a filter that water was forced through with mechanical pressure, possibly from gravity. If you like that idea, maybe you could calculate for us how many eV a water would gain falling a few cm, and how far off that is from what it would take to do any chemistry.
White's other idea was that it was similar to the work of Ondreij Votava entitled "Vibrationally Mediated
Photodissociation of Water....". Now if you like that idea, why don't we just write Voteva and ask him what he thinks of it. He seems like a nice guy with the pictures of his kids on his website and all. I am sure he would get back to us if we asked him why he didn't just use a bigger container and more water but the same amount of energy. But I don't want to waste time he could spend with his family if nobody here is going to listen to him. |
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Re: Anthony's Edison observations (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 @ 00:08:23 UTC | Anthony,
I am one of the anonymous supporters of GWE who quite often post on this board. I am the author of the news item from which this thread started. I wrote the "Passionate Plea".
I would like to deeply thank you for the information you have provided. You have answered many questions, provided important information, and have made a lot of sense on many issues.
Many of us are deeply cynical about the entire alternative energy field. I honestly believe that various forms of alternative energy do exist and are viable. But there have been so many scams and liars running around for so long many of us have been burnt.
I have a request to ask you, and I hope you can convey it back to GWE.
I understand that GWE does not want a lot of publicity. I also understand that they do not want to reveals important details about their technology. For that is something I totally understand.
However, many on this board (even though your comments have renewed my hope that GWE is indeed a valid company and about to change the world) have not seen one piece of hard solid proof that GWE is actually a company.
We have seen their website, some internet articles, some photos of a device on their website, and some info about a press conference.
Is there ANYWAY whatsoever that GWE could release some information on their website proving that they and Genesis World Management are indeed a REAL company and perhaps some kind of documentation from a company, lab, or agency that the Genesis Device works?
Honestly, we don't want much. Just a shread of evidence to cling onto. Chick Pickle is not trying to be rude or mean to you. Even though I do believe he is too skeptical and may at times have been a little rude, I believe he has a heart that would LOVE to see GWE and their technology as REAL!
However, we don't have any solid proof.
Could you please ask GWE to provide SOME KIND OF evidence/proof that the Edison Device and their company are legit?
It could be some type of documentation about the technology from another company or scientist who can at least be quoted as saying, "Hey, I looked at it and tested it... it works." or even just a lab that verified the concept.
Look, we need something. You have been FANTASTIC in answering questoins! Thank you VERY MUCH!
But if GWE could provide us with some info on both the Edison Device and SOMETHING proving their company is legit it would be VERY much appreciated.
Perhaps Chick Pickle could give you some suggestions on what exactly would constitute a piece of evidence that would be sufficient.
But we just need something. Can you understand this? You have actually TALKED to team members and have SEEN the device working with your own eyes. It seems like you even have the education to test the device.
But the rest of us have no evidence or proof of GWE or the technology.
I mean, GWE has made some HUGE GIGANTIC CLAIMS when they say companies in 140 nations are about to start making Edison Devices. If that is true, can't they release SOMETHING to show that THEY Are real and that the EDISON device is real?
I know there is a need for secrecy. And I understand the concept you have proposed. But couldn't they just sacrifice a small tad of the secrecy just so we could have some small shread of evidence that they are indeed real?
I have a gut feeling that they are real, but honestly I need something more than that. And I think all of us who have been trying to support GWE on this board, lists, and elsewhere deserve SOMETHING.
Of course your posts have been great. And please don't think I am trying to dismiss everything you have done. But we need something from GWE.
Could you please ask and see what they could do to post SOMETHING on their website that would give us evidence that their company exists and that the Edison Device exists?
I am very sorry if I am coming across as rude. I really don't want too. But GWE would be helping many of us so much if they would release SOMETHING. |
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A suggestion on independent testing (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 @ 02:38:24 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Anonymous has suggested that I should provide some suggestions as to what should constitute proof that GWE's claims are true. The financial things are obvious but uninteresting to an engineer (go ahead, pay some taxes, pay a dividend, this is sure to impress me at least).
But most people here are probably more interested in an independent evaluation of the Edison device. For this I suggest that GWE reconsider its rejection of Eric Krieg's offer to test the device for free. UFCT/GWEP/whoever can take the Edison they use in Jersey to impress investors over the Betsy Ross to Phillly and Eric will test it for free. He'll want to look at the water filters and the precipitate. And he'll need for it to run for a while. He might even need for you to supply the inverter to get it to work with his testing equipment. But if it works, he'll pay you $10k. GWE's previous refusal of Eric's offer is pretty hard to understand for a company that had a real invention.
And how about the house in Eagle. 1706 ... is that? Why not produce evidence that it's run on its own power for a year. Why not show us all the big check that it gets every August when the cost of on-grid power is high because of the AC in California?
The null hypothesis is that you don't do it because you have no invention to demonstrate and no remarkable utility bills either. Why not provide the evidence for us all to reject the null?
It seems taxes are a tough subject. Lots of authentic folk, for example, Willy Nelson have had problems with the IRS. And Patty probably never would have paid off the $100k IRS lien on the Caldwell place if it hadn't been for the UFCT stock sales. So I'll not bring up the IRS if it's not brought up as an excuse not to pay a dividend. If GWE/UIFCT have revenue, let them pay a dividend, and maybe even pay taxes and stop making excuses. Certainly there is no reason for a legitimate company not to pay the $150k bill that came due in Sumer 2002. All these promises of charity in the future from a serial tax avoider are a joke Patty.
Come on Patty. Enough of this CK, NK, Red Pill, Anthony M... anonymous coward posting and hired hand jibba jabba. Lets talk to da man. Let's hear no more of the houses at undisclosed locations with great utility bills or the undisclosed VIPs who are willing but anonymous witnesses to this or that miracle. No more excuses why you want to wait on writing big checks to charity and to shareholders because you want to wait till next year so you don't have to pay taxes this year. And you might as well stop broadcasting who I am married to and where she works since she doesn't scare easy (how could you not know that?). Why not take this chance to tell your story? Whatever it is. No threats. (Threats make me angry.) No excuses. (Excuses make me suspicious.) No unsubstantiated calls on unnamed or inaccessible authorities (Such as the 1980's joint chiefs. As if we all bowl with Al Haig.) Just drive the gizmo over the Betsy Ross and get it tested by someone who knows what he's doing. |
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Re: A suggestion on independent testing (Score: 1)
by baldy on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 @ 07:34:54 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | I too have been in this since 12-06-03. I have made all filings signed the non disclosure, filed a communities proposal, filed for a ditribution sales license watched and followed closley, and have received a communication that I will be notified in the near future of a meeting in Boise when I will be allowed, with other licensees to see the Edison, view its documentation and have my engineers go through the data and question mark, have a display and sales model to take home to use for pre sales . I live in the Boise area. If you want to buy a machine for your own reasons whatever, I will sell you one when available. If you just want to make trouble I pass.
Genesis 1, 1 the first book of the bible talks about water. Revelation 22, 17, the fifth from the last verse of the bible talks about water. God made water, he knew how to put it together, and He knows how to take it apart. He has waited for this propitious moment to disclose how to do it in an energy producing manner because of his timing. I beleive it that ends it. Fish or cut bait. I have the time and the ability to sell you a machine when it is available. Lbaldyw@aol.com |
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Re: A suggestion on independent testing -motsb (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 @ 13:41:31 UTC | Fellow Boisean..When/if this thing goes public, I don't think you will have any trouble finding someone to buy your Edison device. There will probably be millions of people waiting for their very own. This device will make the news all over the world and will promote itself by its very existance as the salvation of a troubled world. This being the case, I can see why GWE hasn't conclusively substantiated their claim....they could wait till it was convenient for them to open the Pandoras Box. At that point nobody will be complaining about a thing and the next wave of potential liscencees will be overwelming....so I can see thier point, but Anthony, show ME this device and I'll sign whatever, and afterwards I'll get a hold of Pickle and break the news to him!
Fellow Boisean, I have a scenerio for you...what if the whole world gets converted over to this technology.....and we find out that the E-cell is really short for EVIL cell and that the mystery of the E cell is not perpetual motion or something else as silly or impossible, but a little bit of Satin in it! It would your own fault for not finding out just exactly HOW this device actually worked, but it would be too late and we would all be slaves to the devil! What? You don't believe in Satin?
Either the people at GWE are modern day saints saving the world or they are a bunch of extremely
audacious crooks taking their wack at a country in crisis. A country that is losing its sons every day to elements that would tear down everything that my family has fought and bled for. Greedy individuals are to blame for exploiting the 3rd world and giving the greatest country in the world a bad reputation. These type of people are just as dangerous to us as
the terrorists that want to kill our children, because they are tearing down the very walls of civilisation down around us one brick at a time. So don't blame me for being a cynic...at least I give a dam. GWE, I apoligise in advance, and want to be part of the miracle. I might even pray for forgiveness...
but if you are crooks, then you belong in Guantonimo with the rest of em.....and if I have my way that is where you will end-up......no offense......bye now -motsb
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Re: A suggestion on independent testing (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 @ 13:47:26 UTC | From now on, I, anonymous, who wrote the "plea" will be known as Tybalt.
Chip-Pickle, I underst and your frustration and your situation. Naturally, we should be skeptical about GWE and their technology. And I did ask you to make suggestions.
However, I wish that you could be a little more polite and a little less threatening.
If GWE is indeed a real company then being so close to rude is not going to help. Also, I doubt that Anthony will cooperate if we blatantly accuse GWE of being a scam.
I would like to see GWE post SOMETHING proving that they are a "real" company. Some kind of divident, tax record, or something would be nice.
But about the Edison Device... It would be nice if they allowed Eric to test it, but then again, they have to be careful of exactly WHO they are letting see the device.
I doubt they would let such a die hard skeptic take a look at the device.
Look at it this way, if you were a REAL company and you had lots of different people saying you are fake, a scam, and a hoax when you were really doing your best to get an amazing product commercialized world wide would you give the chance to examine the device to those that have criticised you the most?
I am just hoping that GWE would give us some documentation from one of THEIR scientists (one with documented credentials who would speak on the record), a lab or company somewhere that has verified the device, or even an example of a company that is manufacturing the oodles and oodles of components.
We need to be polite about this. Do we need to ignore important questions? Absolutely NOT! But if GWE is real, and if we want them to cooperate, why can't we at least treat them with a little respect?
I believe in common decency. And I believe in giving people respect. Now, go ahead and ask your questions to Anthony and others. But why don't you do it in a more constructive way? |
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I, who wrote (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 @ 20:31:48 UTC | From now on, I, anonymous, who wrote the "Plea" will be refered to as Tybalt...Hey Guys lets lighten up!!! People can take a little flack for crimany sakes....If GWE is legit then we all need to kiss their BEEP in a big way. I think we need to rethink these nicknames though... Instead of Tybalt wouldn't Linus be more apropiate and GWE can be
"THE GREAT PUMPKIN". We could refer to the Plea as "LINUS'S PLEA TO THE GREAT PUMPKIN".
To be fair we could refer to Pickle as "Schitt Pole" and MOTSB would be "Man on Prozac in Boise" or (MOPB)..
We can just call Anthony Marchetti "At Home" ...
Smartypants
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Re: A suggestion on independent testing (Score: 1)
by Rastahal on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 @ 17:21:12 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://truthbells.com | Gang,
I haven't posted in awhile but I would humbly like to make a point.
We seem to have the two major opposing viewpoints on this list concerning GWE, the folks who want to dare to believe that the Edision device is real and about to happen, and the folks like Mr. Pickle who have made up their minds that this CAN'T be real, no matter how much evidence is presented.
It seems that Pickle supports his cause with a religious ferver, and I believe he will deny all the evidence until there's absolutly no way he can avoid the truth, and I wouldn't be surprised if he still chooses to deny the facts. However, IMHO, we've been given plenty of evidence and advanced information by GWE and others "in the know" on this list...but some folks are still requiring HARD PROOF.
Come on, folks....step back and take a look at what's happened over the last year with this issue. Thanks to passionate requests made by a few on this website, we've gotten much more information than is presented on the Genesis website. From Anthony's recent posts to "CK" telling us about the special place of women in the GWE organization,
and having that very bit of information show up on the GWE website two weeks after we were told, it's evident these folks have some kind of connection with GWE.
So, my question to the would-be believers is....how about excercising a little faith? It's so easy to pick flaws with any senerio presented here, and folks like Mr. Pickle are truly expert at it. It's much harder to have the courage of heart to follow the truth where ever it leads.
We've all had opportunities to examine the claims and statements from folks including the insights provided by Anthony. In my opinion, it's getting harder and harder to deny that GWE is on to something big.
So, I choose to believe the claims of GWE and that their mission, purpose and technology are all very real. By my reckoning, GWE has done an incredible job of guiding this technology to fruition, and they certainly don't need any help from us. Even so, after the "passionate plea" letter was written, Anthony came on the scene to further share his insights about GWE and he certainly seems to know whereof he speaks!
So, for all you folks who share Pickle's passion of picking flaws, nothing anyone says here is going to change your mind. But for those who wish and hope it is true, I challenge you to look at the evidence again, read again the excellent posts from Anthony and others, then make that grand stretch of faith and choose to BELIEVE with a whole heart. Thanks for listening. |
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Rasta.. we need something to hold on to... (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 @ 23:33:31 UTC | Rasta,
Hi. This is me, Tybalt.
I believe as you do that it is probable that GWE is for real and legitimate. However, I have been burnt so many times that I want some small piece of solid evidence that shows both GWE is a legit company AND that the Edison Device is real.
I have learned the hard way (not just in the alternative energy field but others) that hoaxers and con artists cause a tremendous ammount of damage. I am tired of it. I just want the TRUTH and nothing but the truth.
It frustrates that GWE apparently refuses to give us a shread of anything solid to hold on to. We need to hold onto SOMETHING...
For example, I am a CHRISTIAN. Most of my fellow Christians believe that the world is not going to get any better whatsoever, the end-times are almost here, and the earth is going to go downhill fast.
Well, I am a little different. Because even though I believe that there will be an end-times and that Jesus Christ will return that it could be one year, or another TWO THOUSAND years before he returns!
There is no way of knowing, and until then we need to do EVERYTHING WE CAN to make this world a better place.
What ONE SINGLE THING could make this world a better place? Well, lets think for a moment...
What is the most critical resource that people fight over? Energy! Of course there are many others, but energy is critical. We fight over energy, we pollute the world over energy, and we spend billions and billions of dollars on energy.
If we could obtain a cheap, clean, and abundant source of energy (like the Edison Device) there is a good chance that perhaps an opportunity could come about where the world could become a BETTER place for at least a little while.
You see, I want to share information about GWE to give other people HOPE. I want them to know that things are about to change and that before long there will no longer be a reason to burn tons and tons of coal to power this nation, no reason to need millions or billions of barrels of oil, no reason to use fission as a way to produce energy, no reason for nations like IRAN or NORTH KOREA to use the excuse of electrical energy to make fission reactors, and perhaps just maybe we could bring power to the poorest parts of the world.
We have a chance to make this world a much better place!
However, I can't just show them the GWE webpage (these people who have basically lost all hope for a better world) when there is not one bit of solid evidence backing them up as a company or their technology.
You see, I try to be an optimist and not be too cynical about things. But at the same time I try to be skeptical. We HAVE to remain a little skeptical or we will fall for every snake oil saleman that exists.
Look, I just want GWE to provide us with some small piece of evidence. |
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Linus, I heard that halloween night, when the full moon is high (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 16, 2003 @ 09:01:11 UTC | Linus,
I heard that halloween night, when the full moon is high will be the time that all your questions will be answered...
smartypants |
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Re: Were talking GWE and the Edison, NOT cartoons. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 16, 2003 @ 10:33:55 UTC | Smartypants,
Please stop posting dribble. I am not trying to be rude, and of course welcome any on-topic posts you have. However, we are trying to talk seriously about the Edison Device and GWE.
If they are real then they are going to change the entire world.
So why do you what to belittle the subject with talk of cartoon shows?
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Re: Were talking GWE and the Edison, NOT cartoons. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 17, 2003 @ 02:12:23 UTC | Cartoons is all you get, because you're just plain silly. You come up with a story line and just state this is what you prefer to see as the truth, so it must be so. Just make sure you SEE this thing before you buy it...PEOPLE..... LET GWE TAKE THEIR TIME(unless you already gave them money)... THAT IS THEIR PEROGATIVE, BUT IF WHAT THEY CLAIM IS LEGIT, THAN YOU SHOULD NEVER ,AND I REPEAT ,NEVER UNDER ANY CICUMSTANCES ,BE IN A SITUATION THAT YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN FAITH IN EDISON DEVICE, AND GOOD BUSSINESS SENSE. THERE SHOULD BE NO TIME IN WHICH YOU HAVE HANDED THEM YOUR MONEY AND THEY HAVE NOT PROVED TO YOU BEYOND ALL DOUBT THAT THIS DEVICE WORKS.... PERIOD!!!!!! ......END OF DISCUSSION!!!!!!!....WOOPS DID I SAY END OF DICSUSSION? I DIDN'T MEAN THAT?! WAIT Now Linus,I mean Tygalt can I trust you to do that or did you already sign the check !!!...Tell me you didn't already sign the check!!!!!! Oh Well
Smartypants |
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We need to generate it ourselves... (Score: 1)
by Rastahal on Thursday, October 16, 2003 @ 13:31:52 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://truthbells.com | Tybalt,
Thanks for the great response, I really enjoyed reading your post!
Let me say that I agree with you about getting burned and needing some sort of proof, especially if you wish to prove the truth of the Edison device to someone else.
I know how frustrating it can be to try to share the news of this invention that has the potential to change the world with folks...if your like me you get mostly blank stares or head scratching or outright denial.
But I wish to gently push back a little on some of your comments. I consider the response we got from Anthony after the "plea" post as compelling circumstantial evidence in favor of the Edison device. Do you have any doubt the man knows whereof he speaks? He was easily able to meet the challenge of another investor in UFCT by naming the suburb in which a prototype device has been successfully functioning for a year, and that's just one example out of many.
The way I look at it, Genesis DID respond to the "plea" though the personage of Anthony Marchetti.
I'm no expert on energy technology but I know how the government works…did you read that last article from Vlad about the 133 inventions that were pulled from the patent office last year?
GWE HAS to proceed in this fashion to GET THE TECHNOLOGY OUT. According to one of Anthony's posts, the desire is to start a revolution without firing a single shot...this means that GWE will NOT test or promote the device, leaving all that to the folks that license the technology. It seems to me this is a great strategy...but it plays havoc with us "front liners' who have been burned before and see the possibility of what's coming and desire hard proof.
Should GWE really take a detour from their well-thought-out plan to get this technology to the world in order to "prove" the Edison device to satisfy a few of us on the "front lines" that are demanding such proof? Even at the risk of possibly endangering the original plan?
Genesis has offered more "proof" of what they have than any other new energy project I've researched in the last few years...they even have detailed pictures of the device on the website! Has anyone thought to digitally enhance these pictures to see what is in this box they are claiming can power a house? There's a lot of stuff in those pictures that can be examined and the information used to either support the evidence or deny it.
I don't think many folks on this site have looked at this and other information in order to circumstantially prove that Genesis is just what it appears to be, most appear to be sitting on the fence like yourself or they choose to pick flaws, which takes no great skill.
Why is it such a big deal to put faith in something that MAY turn out to be incorrect? To use an able mind and a willing heart to come to conclusions, then to put faith in those conclusions is what life's all about...but an immature faith can be easily misplaced..even faith in people, God and country. But even when our faith fails us, it becomes a learning experience and it makes us wiser for the next time.
If you have faith in your marriage, and you find one day it's over, is the proper way to give up and never have faith in marriage again? I guess for some it is! ;-) All these lessons of life are good, necessary and sometimes VERY hard to endure, but the trick is to pick yourself up and keep moving forward. That applies to your faith as well.
You could have sat on the fence when it comes to your religious beliefs, but you didn't. You stated you have faith in Christianity and in the teachings of Joshua been Joseph (Jesus) Although not so nearly as important, the same applies here. Someday the Edison device (or something else) will be here and taken for granted as a fact of life, giving this world a new vision of hope for the future. But right now all we have is evidence that the Edison device is real or a possible hoax. IF you examine the evidence, read the posts from Anthony and others, and study the website closely, I believe the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of the Edison device being real. Now I can choose to sit on the fence saying "I'm not believing until I see one for myself", I can pick flaws in brutal fashion like Mr. Pickle OR I can examine the evidence, think about it, pray about it and make a decision to believe or deny based on my discernment.
And, since you have already stated your a Christian, let me share with you another viewpoint as to why it must happen.
Although lots of us may not agree on many religious matters, most of us "know" God exists, one reason might be that we were "wired" to believe in a higher power. So let me present to you my deceptively simple logic....would God design this world with just enough "fuel" to get to this point, but no further? I think not...we were given the intelligence, drive and curiouisity to figure this out, and we are in the process of doing that right now! And the Heavenly Hosts may be cheering us on!
There may be a great number of delays and roadblocks but it will happen...of that I have no doubt.
Being a musician, I have always been keenly interested in the science of audio recording a playback. Ten years before CD's were released, I knew what was coming. I told a lot of folks and heard a lot of skepticism...now, every child accepts their reality as common knowledge. I believe the Edison device will be no different.
Sorry for the long post...and thanks for listening and keep sharing your thoughts!
One love,
Rastahal |
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Re: We need to generate it ourselves... (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 16, 2003 @ 15:54:53 UTC | Hello Rasta,
This is me, Tybalt...
That was a great post. I agree with a LOT of what you are saying!
However, I still believe that GWE could give us something, some small kind of proof, without sacrificing their entire plan.
I also agree that there is a need for secrecy. The powers that be have squashed so many alternative energy inventors and devices that it is smart TO go about this in such a way. However, I think they have gone just a little too extreme...
You see, let me try to explain...
If they have licensed this technology to lets say two hundred companies in over a hundred and forty nations then obvious the powers that be ALREADY KNOW about this technology!
Why? Well, many of the "powers that be" work for many of these LARGE CORPORATIONS.
The powers that be know about GWE. Perhaps GWE has went about this in a way that has made it harder for those powers to step on them. However, THEY KNOW GWE EXISTS.
The only ones who are in the dark is OURSELVES and the public.
Yes, I believe we need to have faith. And I believe in Jesus Christ even though I was not personally there to see him. I believe he died on the cross, rose from the dead, and then went back to heaven. However, a faith in a company or a person is a LOT different than a divine being...
Here is the point...
If you have faith in "God" then there can only be "one" GOD because the definition of a GOD is an ALL POWERFUL BEING.
A company or group of individuals or a technology is NOT a GOD. It is NOT all powerful.
Companies and coorporations have failed all of us many times. False companies and coorporations have failed us over and over again. But there is no evidence whatsoever that GOD has ever failed us! If anything he has HELPED mankind over and over again. It is because of our SIN that the world is so messed up!
God does NOT cause bad things to happen. He may allow them to happen when WE cause them. However, he does not cause them to happen.
However, we have seen hoaxers and scammers cause bad things to happen over and over again.
And about marriage... In my opinion that was not a good example. Because as a Christian I am going to marry ONE TIME and stay married my entire life. I am going to have faith in GOD that myself and my CHRISTIAN wife (when I oneday get married) will live our ENTIRE LIVES ON EARTH AND EVEN BEYOND together.
I can have that kind of faith because I know GOD is going to work things out.
People and companies on the other hand are FALLIBLE.
I want to have faith in GWE. And to some degree I have faith in them! I am not just on the fence if you read my posts. I am at the point where I am ready to jump off on the side of GWE if I can only see SOMETHING solid!
You see, with God, I can jump off without having to see anything myself. Of course I see what God has done in my life, I see him answering prayers, and I can feel the Holy Spirit in the life of myself and others. However, you cannot actually see God. Or at least not very often in modern times! So you MUST jump out on a leap of faith.
However, GWE COULD post SOMETHING on their website showing that their technology exists.
They don't have to spill ALL THE BEANS but they could post something. Some bit of evidence. Just something...
And by the way, I LIKE your long post! I enjoy reading them!
I am doing my very best to learn the guitar! I am progressing slowly...
Anyway, back on subject...
I also TOTALLY agree with your idea that God made this universe so that we could have all the energy we need.
You see, I also believe that the GWE will just be a stepping stone. The next step will be energy from a device like the MEG.
I believe that God created the universe (even after man fell from the garden) so that if we could just stop sinning and killing each other we could live in a utopia. I honestly believe that every force of nature and even TIME is engineerable.
Seriously, don't you believe that GWE could release something to us? I mean, Anthony has been GREAT! He has answered a LOT of questions and I appreciate it very much. But why can't GWE post SOMETHING on their website?
I mean, they could post just a lab report (even if they needed to black stuff out). It could just tell us that they examined the device. This much energy and water went in and then this much energy was produced.
Thanks for your post! |
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Proof is good! (Score: 1)
by Rastahal on Friday, October 17, 2003 @ 12:56:03 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://truthbells.com | Hey, Tybalt!
Good reply...and you do have me thinking about what your saying. You have a good point about the fact that the agencies who would try to squash this technology already know about it. I imagine your correct.
OK...I can better understand your argument for some sort of proof and why you and others feel that way! But I don't expect it to happen ;-(
For me the exciting part in all this is to make the decision to believe in GWE and their claims in spite of no hard proof, just lots of evidence. For myself, it's exciting to make that leap of faith....to be expectant of great things from Genesis, to believe in the technology despite the loud shouting of the naysayers. ;-)
I would like to think that my decision to believe in GWE is based on discernment, reason and strong evidence...but only time will tell.
And, if our own Mr. Pickle turns out to be correct in his suspicions, I'll drive to his house, take him out for a beer, shake his hand, and tell him he's right and I'm nothing but a gullible dreamer!
Anyway, thanks for responding to my posts...it's fun to discuss this stuff with other like minded folks, and I feel it makes us all think deeply about where we stand on this issue. You sound like a good guy and I'm glad you've made the decision to believe in GWE too...somewhat ;-)
However, I'm not waiting for the proof...I choosing to believe with a whole heart now. My faith could be misplaced, I have to admit that...I guess only time will tell!
It seems we agree on the idea that our creator is always watchful over his creation, and that he's given us everything we need to create sustainable civilizations and energy independence for all!
I also like your point about this being only the first step in our new energy adventures, that energy from the active vacuum is looming right over the horizon...that's right on and I totally agree. If the Edison device is real, it will break down all the barriers that now hold back the release of these other forms of energy, to be sure!
You know, you or someone else from this list just might convince GWE to put up some proof. They've already shared much by way of Anthony's posts, much more than I thought they would. So, keep up the good work...things could get very exciting, indeed!
By the way, I'm in the power business, I work for a major west coast utility and I know my industry will be badly shaken and eventually destroyed if this is the real deal. But I'm cool with that...I know I'll be taken care of.
FYI..I've gone ahead and applied for a job with GWE...IF they call me and I get to talk to them, I'll let the list know.
One Love,
RastaHal
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Beer is good too. (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, October 17, 2003 @ 14:10:46 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Rasta, about
And, if our own Mr. Pickle turns out to be correct in his suspicions, I'll drive to his house, take him out for a beer, shake his hand, and tell him he's right and I'm nothing but a gullible dreamer!
That would be great. But it might be too long a drive.
With the discussion of religion lately, I was reminded that there is nothing new under the sun, and that the problem of telling false profits from true ones goes back a long way. This was a problem for the church early on, and there is some good writing about the subject that made its way into the Bible. Eric Krieg has written a letter to churches about investing in free energy investments marketed to them. Just something to remember.
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Tybalt and Rasta (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, October 16, 2003 @ 17:33:25 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Tybalt - If you sign in your pen name gets added to the tag lines and it's easier to see who is saying what.
Rasta -
(OT, what do you play?)
We really don't know who Anthony is. The address that the man on the street in Boise tested him with came from the PR company. It's not clear that the investors all have Kelly's home address. Anthony could have been just another Guy-Rome persona. If so, it was by far the most entertaining. So much more reasonable sounding than the others that I don't think he's from Guy-Rome. But I don't think he's an investor either.
Pressed, Anthony admits never to have measured how quickly the fuel (what GWE calls a catalyst) is used up. This was the first suggestion for how people could be tricked into thinking that something like the gCell is for real, proposed back in December 8th by Esther Tigre.
Anthony reported some far out claims. He said that the government approached the Team about using their technology to make a weapon and that they turned them down. This is simply not how this world works. If the government thinks you have something they need, they make you an offer you can't refuse. Also this is an odd stance for them to take given their claims to have worked for years on defense projects. Then we have to reconcile why a company that plans to donate 75% of its profits to charity is intentionally managing its revenue to postpone paying taxes. And why they (UFCT) are behind on their taxes.
Finally, if you believe Anthony, you believe that GWE's claim that it has no investors is not completely true. The reason GWE makes this claim is so that the press is off their guard. If reporters think "It can't be a pump and dump because they don't sell stock." then they aren't going to be sneaking out to Eagle to read the meter themselves. But they do sell stock, just under a different name, and it can be a pump and dump. |
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Re: Tybalt and RastaHal (Score: 1)
by Rastahal on Friday, October 17, 2003 @ 13:41:54 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://truthbells.com | Chipotle,
I somewhat follow your logic but I still think you sometimes grasp at straws to prove GWE false.
But that's OK...I've been accused of doing the same to support their claims. ;-)
Before Anthony's post, you were making other observations of this nature, and at times it even seemed that you knew what was going on.
But his post did such a good job of answering your questions and critisims, that it was obvious to me who knew more about the Edison device, even IF Anthony isn't an investor...it's obvious to me he has some inside connection the rest of us do not.
I agree that not everything he discusses makes perfect sense, such as what you bring up about the military thing...but do we reject the whole concept because the apparent facts aren't always neatly laid out and understandable?
I say no...there is still much in what he and others have said that begs the question...shouldn't we be giving this company the benefit of the doubt...or at the very least...a neutral unbiased assesment?
We just can't prove anything at this point, whether this is real or a clever scam...but in my mind, the evidence is more than enough to say....let's at least withhold judgement while we wait for proof.
So, yes...I know there are holes in the Genesis story...it's not a perfect picture. But that certainly doesn't prove them a scam in my book.
Chipotle...let me ask you....do you feel there is ANY possibility of overunity here? Is there ANY possibility in your mind of Genesis being just who they say they are? From your previous posts, it seems to me that your answer would be a big fat NO!
And that's perfectly OK, your a part of this world as much as I am...but it makes for a lot of lopsided discussions because, with that frame of mind, it's so easy to see only the holes, not bothering to look further becasue you KNOW it can't be true!
I admit..I do have trouble with that mental attitude but I figure I need to deal with it as I am forced to admit to myself that you just may be correct.
Anyway, your opinion is as valid as mine so I guess we just keep verbally sparing until the truth is made clear. It won't be long....
Oh, almost forgot your OT question..I sing and play guitar. I also have a small project studio and produce original music, mostly reggae in the Marley tradition, which is why this white boy was given the moniker of "RastaHal"
Over and out.
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compare GWE to Curies (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, October 17, 2003 @ 14:45:55 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | The last time we had a real anomaly in energy was when the Curies were reporting that they had rocks that got hot for no reason. That was a real striking result, and they didn't even have a theory to explain it. That came later! It wasn't OU, since they were using something up, but it sure looked like OU, since the way it was used up was not obvious. I'm sure it took people a while to accept the Curies reports, but they were published and accepted because the Curies were open, they were known to have the skill to make the measurements they were reporting, they invited people to their lab, and they let other scientists know what they needed to to independently verify their work. As a result, they helped give us the source of energy that will power our world once the oil starts running low (supposing we never have a good way to make coal smoke really clean) for the next couple of thousand years.
What would the GWE/UFCT/GT/GSCI folks have done in the same position? Sell a bunch of stock in the device, hire two PR firms to hold a press conference announcing their rock powered water heater, claim not to sell stock, sell more stock, write up the capabilities of the water heater using nonsense terms that make no sense as a description of a heater (10 KW per day for example) never given their credentials, never shown their process, all the while harping on about what ethical people they are. They never would have been believed by anyone with the business sense required to make a go of it and would never have accomplished anything.
Is nuclear our last great energy discovery? I dunno. Ask me in 10,000 years when we need an alternative. |
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Re: compare GWE to Curies (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 17, 2003 @ 17:09:45 UTC | Hi Chipotle,
I would rather agree with you. GWE is possibly using already known effect (but relatively new), described by few pioneers elsewere (try http://www.blacklightpower.com/new.shtml, who publish technology details). Some explanations are provided, and none of them are advancing 'OU' as a possible answer. Tweaking of current theory necessary would be, but nature does not need tweaking (with 'OU').
Now, why GWE is managed as a hoax site (even, if it has some artistic qualities, there are no scientificaly sound qualities on their pages)?
1. Their process is so simple, that everybody can build it in a kitchen. So, no technical details, but if product will be there, you would rather spend you time playing golf instead of buiilding it yourself.
2. Energy buisiness feels the 'hydrogen squizzing' danger, comming from many places. They set the GWE hoax site, with an objective to scare and rape (soon) maximum number of investors and potential customers. This would give them an edge (in time) , for another ten years, with good, old technology.
Another argument that scam is under way: it looks like famous UFCT "was registered in August 2001, has never filed a report, has not revealed who its officers are, and has not paid any taxes." (source: Henry Avery, who checked it few months ago, see: http://www.matr.net/article-5090.html). But following Mr Anthony M., UFCT is backing financially GWE, being in same time a reliable fuel cells provider (fuel cell start-up in a flash!). This also sounds strange. One cannot find them on the web, nor on the market (not even on OTC). How it works, Mr Anthony M., please? Possibly, UFCT is just a money colector, using confidential channels, which will evaporate in right time.
How exciting this can be!
Regards,
Ares |
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Re: A suggestion on independent testing (Score: 1)
by baldy on Friday, October 17, 2003 @ 00:09:44 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | | Baldy says AMEN, nice to know that there is at least one more believer standing with me. |
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Re: A suggestion on independent testing (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 17, 2003 @ 10:59:11 UTC | I have many acquaintances that have been following this story and we want to thank you for your previous posting. You, above all people gave us more of an inside since you are one of the lucky licensees for the GWE technology. We are extremely happy and excited that you and the other lucky licensees shortly will be seeing, touching and owning an Edison Device. WOW! WOW! WOW! We want to buy as soon as you have the Device.
Baldy, kudos to you for taking a change to disclose this positive information especially since you signed a non-disclosure; our lips are sealed.
Your true believers
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Re: A suggestion on independent testing - MOTSB (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, October 18, 2003 @ 01:51:40 UTC | MOTSB-Chitpole, What was that address again in Eagle? How about that address in Caldwell? I AM THE MAN ON THE STREET IN BOISE! I offer my services to one and all in the quest for truth. I will not break and enter, and I will not break the law, in fact, I won't even be rude, but I'm happy to interview or visit any location and make observations in the greater Boise Area and report
back here what I find UNTILL the time comes that
I sign a nondisclosure form and am shown and COVINCED of a working edison devise... THEN I'll do whatever they ask me to do and thank them for saving the world and I will swear to do whatever it takes to protect the right of people to have access to this miracle. I know I am all over both sides of the fence. I put out a call to Tybalt, to Rastahal and to everyone else. To be truthful, I don't do this very often, but here goes. I want to reach out to you guys and lets all have a moment together in
prayer. God is omnipresent so we can all pray together and yet at the different times each of us actaully read this message...Lets all take a moment
and pray that the Edison Device is real..... AND I promise to pray again for thankfullness the moment I KNOW the Edison Device is real.
UNTILL THEN I'm the Man on the street in Boise. |
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Re: A suggestion on independent testing - MOTSB (Score: 1)
by Rastahal on Saturday, October 18, 2003 @ 14:01:29 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://truthbells.com | MOTSB,
While some on this list may not take you seriously, I choose to and, along with you and others, I will pray, not only for the device to be real (for I have great faith that it is) but for the successful release and worldwide distribution of this world changing technology.
Regardless of our own personal insights into spiritual realities, and regardless of how different they can be, the truth is we all worship the same heavenly Father for we are all his children and we all have our being in the great universial circuit of his love.
Peace,
RH
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send an email (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Saturday, October 18, 2003 @ 14:22:48 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | I don't want to broadcast that, since I can't trust what just anybody would do with the information. And it's the Eagle house they say is the site, not the other one. Funny, Stan Meyer is also in Eagle also. Small world. Send an email and we'll talk about what you can do with the address that's legal, safe, and fair to all. |
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Re: send an email (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, October 18, 2003 @ 23:11:52 UTC | I think I'll just hang out for a month or 2 and see what GWE comes up with....my email is messed up
and I don't have time to mess with it right now.
-MOTSB |
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Re: Anthony's Edison observations (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, June 10, 2004 @ 03:23:52 UTC | About the opinion that "the catalyst has to be used up."
I can think of a way in which the "catalyst" would not be flushed into the system as contaminants and still be acting as a "catalyst."
See the thing is... is that what you really want to know is how it works.
HOW IT WORKS
HOW IT WORKS
mmmmmmmm.
But that is exactly the whole darn mystery of the thing that makes it special and valuable to the world (obviously, yes I know I'm stating the obvious). Of course they are being vague.
I mean, come on, why don't you just keep yourself updated on current and cutting edge technology and you'll sort of get some ideas of what sort of thing they might be doing.
Basically what I'm saying is that I think it might be possbile that you are not informed enough to know that this "edison device" might very well be possible.
Here........
I haven't seen it myself but
I'm going to make a bunch of guesses here and point you in the direction for more information so you can see what I'm talking about.
When I say guesses,
I mean I'm going to guess at what technology/mechanisms might be getting used in there.
You can follow along and expand on any of them if you like.
First one about the catalyst:
The Blacklight Power company (just mentioned by a previous poster) explains a proven phenomena involving hydrogen and certain "catalysts" that causes the electron in the hydrogen atom to shrink it's orbit down to a fractional energy level (like 1/2 or 1/4 instead of 1 like normal) which is stable and that they now call a "hydrino." It releases a lot of energy while doing so AND I might add is now smaller than a regular hydrogen (think membranes). And also has much stronger binding energy than a regular hydrino. Notice that they back it up with samples of unique chemicals that cannot be identified conventionally.
Ok. So one of the things that they found out was that if you take a thin nickel cylinder/tube/whatever and put hydrogen into it under pressure and then surround that vessel with another vessel filled with just plain water and potassium carbonate (K2CO3) the hydrogen gets forced into individual hydrogens atoms and makes it's way through the nickel wall and then reacts on the other side with the potassium carbonate and the temperature just keeps rising and rising with no conventional explanation to account for the extra heat. I think I even saved a pdf file of an outside company performing an independent analysis of this simple experiment.
Well now here's what I'm thinking; that hydrogen is coming through on the other side and (non-radiatevely) reacting with the K2CO3 and some of them are turning into hydrinos and now that THEY ARE SMALLER THEY SEEP THROUGH the wall of the second chamber also.
So here's is a case of a "catalyst" and the word "chemical" being used in the same process yet the nickel is not going to go anywhere outside that second chamber and neither is the potassium or carbon. Yet those hydrinos will.
Yet both the "chemicals" and "catalyst" can be "used up."
Because at some point down the line the nickel will "give way" from embrittlement and all the K2CO3 will "give way" to the higher binding energies of all those hydrinos and hydrino ions and all you'll be left with is a bunch of funky hydrino-potassium-oxygen molecules and hydrino ions (they claim long polymer type chains of hydrino ions [hard to explain]).
Cool off:
I suppose you can now either use one of the current "state of the art" solid state thermoelectric generators [thermocouple/seebeck whatever you wanna call it], unless you managed some kind of unusual breathrough in this field, to recover some of all this heat and convert it to electricity.
Or you can use a sterling engine (which would be quiet) with magnets/coils attached etc.. Except that wouldn't match up with what we've been told about it being solid state.
And/or you can have that heat in contact with a circuit which is already being used by something else normal to the sytem in which there is an ultraconductor or room temp superconductor which would try to suck all that heat away from the negative side of the circuit and put it just on the other side of the super/ultra conductor.
I know.... you probably don't believe in a room temp super conductor. Yet
It seems to me from what you've posted that you might be familiar with some of JLN Labs' (Jean Louis Naudin) online experiments.
One of which he simply tests the "negative resistence" of carbon fiber composites. Although I must admit it's ability too rapidly transfer heat has not been tested as far as I know.
Also, another type of room temp super conductor is made by getting extremely fine bismuth powder and mixing it with epoxy and heating for several hours until the bismuth is made colloidal and then applying 2 needle point electrodes to this mix at around 800 volts (at micro amps) and slowly drawing them apart while at the same time increaing the voltage.
Oh, you probably want the patent number.....let me see here... I think I have it in my favorites.....yeah it's here, patent number 4,325,795. This is the original work that "spinned off" (like a sitcom) the ultraconductors.com company. Of course they "pooh pooh it" by saying something like, "we can't see how it's useful," or something like that.
Anyone ever thought of combining these 2 together, i.e. take 2 small conductive plates and smash them together with several layers of carbon fiber in between that have the hot bismuth/epoxy soaked in and apply the HV-low amps.
Hey,.... Maybe a quick and dirty room temp super conductor.
(Your welcome for the free ideas)
Right, well a bunch of hydrinos leaking through a glass or metal chamber wouldn't seem to be representative of the correct volume which would be occuring in these gcells would it.
Ok, let's suppose they developed some way of depositing nickel particles or nanostrips on a membrane which retained it's solidity to the regular H2 so that only the nickel particles would experience embrittlement over time and eventually loosen up and no longer be useful as a way to strain H2 into H with just pressure. Well the nickel atoms wouldn't break up and leak through the membrane as contaminants cuz there too big. And let's suppose on the opposite side of this membrane is the adhesived K2CO3. So now all they need is some sort of filter after that which won't let the K or C to pass just incase they get broken up.
(Don't ask me what kind of filter cuz I'm not knowledgeable on filters).
I'm just shooting out ideas here......
Cooling issues.... Fast Solid state cooling can be accomplished by applying a magnetic field to a certain gadolinium compound see
http://www.eurekalert.org/features/doe/2001-11/dl-mrs062802.php
And obviously it goes without saying that a gas will cool when it expands.
And also you can surround a Hydrogen gas line with a pair of magnets to keep it in an orthohydrogen state if you are trying to keep it more reactive as a group to increase efficiency.
Let me see if I can think of some more.
What are we trying to get at here.... The production of excess heat and then converting that efficiently enough to electricity to exceed the original input by probably a minimum of 250% and all at solid state.
hmmmmm
Ok 2 more just popped in my head.
There is a guy in the jln labs discussion group that has brought up a number of times the concept of utilizing ozone (short life span) as a different way of attracting hydrogen through a memberane. I bring it up because perhaps it might be more efficient to use converted heat electricity in a small stun gun circuit to generate ozone if you used ultracapacitors (just a possibility). If you always have a source of pure oxygen......
The only other nonconventional thing (as far as I'm concerned) which is going on in cold fusion experiments besides what blacklightpower has explained to us (about the non-radiative energy transfer which results in energy release and a "hydrino") is the "EV".
That's the only other thing that I can think of at this moment in time that produces an anomalous extra amount of energy and transmutations.
What's an EV? Look up Ken and Steven shoulders and they'll explain to you what an EV is.
And why it explains transmutations. IMO his theory explains what is really going on.
Aironeous B
Please forgive my mispelling it's late |
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Re: Anthony's Edison observations (Score: 1)
by vlad on Saturday, June 12, 2004 @ 22:54:56 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://www.zpenergy.com | From the free_energy yahoo group:
Message:
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:29:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Leo C."
Subject: Re: special alloy that emits
I agree that certain metals react with water to produce hydrogen gas. For example, Li, Na, and K metal react quite violently to produce hydrogen gas and hydroxides:
2 Li + 2 H2O à H2 + 2 LiOH
There are other metals (e.g., Al, Mg, Fe) that undergo the same reaction (or reaction with acids) to produce H2, but more slowly.
However, my point still stands: the AEC, HydrogenBoost, and Genesis World Energy advertisements are all scams. None of these con artists mention that either the metal alloy is consumed as a fuel, or conservation of energy (1st law of thermodynamics) is violated. The ads give the impression that the water is somehow acting as the fuel. But anyone with a tiny bit of chemistry knowledge understands that water is the "ash" left over from the combustion of hydrogen. To convert this ash back into fuel (H2) would require at least as much energy as was released by the combustion. An analogy would be to capture the carbon dioxide (CO2) exhaust emitted by my car and turn it back into hydrocarbon fuel using a magic "catalyst" that avoids the need to put the energy back in. (Oops, I just gave the scammers another idea to try)
http://pesn.com/2004/06/10/HydrogenElectricCar/
http://www.hydrogenboost.com
http://www.genesisworldenergy.org/genesis_world_energy.htm
By the way, as a concerned chemist, I will continue to point out fraudulent claims that try to exploit the public's unfamiliarity with chemical principles. And if any of the companies that I criticize want to try to sue me for libel, they should go ahead and try. Their fraudulent claims would be exposed even more quickly.
Leo C.
David G Hensley wrote: special alloy that emits bubbles of hydrogen when immersed in water.
Certain metals (ie: manganese ) when immersed in water seperate the water into Hydrogen and Oxygen ..slowly. But when the water is heated the process of seperation is speeded up immensely. However, the oxide form does not react with water at all, but has a tendacy to block the reaction. Pure Iron is another metal with these properties.
This info was garnered from a Merck Index circa 1969.
Hope this helps with your studies.
David G.
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Re: Anthony's Edison observations (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, June 13, 2004 @ 05:34:25 UTC | What happened???
I guess I didn't make my point.
HERE IS HOW A "CATALYST" AND "CHEMICALS" CAN GET "USED UP" BUT NOT ENTER AS A CONTAMINANT ON THE OTHER END WHERE THE "HYDROGEN" COMES OUT.
(this is an answer to chipotle's critique)
HERE I HAVE A NICKEL CONTAINER FILLED WITH WATER AND 2 ELECTRODES BECAUSE I JUST OPENED A VALVE AND FILLED IT AND THEN CLOSED THE VALVE.
SURROUNDING THIS CHAMBER I HAVE ANOTHER CHAMBER THAT IS ALSO FILLED WITH WATER AND SOME POTASSIUM CARBONATE.
I START ELECTROLYZING THE WATER INTO THE SEPARATE GASES. THE PRESSURE BUILDS UP AND THE HYDROGEN STARTS BLEEDING THROUGH THIS NICKEL CHAMBER OVER TO THE OTHER SIDE WHERE IT REACTS WITH THE POTASSIUM CARBONATE PRODUCING HEAT AND TURNING IT INTO HYDRINOS. THE HYDRINOS ARE NOW SMALLER AND WILL BLEED THROUGH THE SECOND OUTER CHAMBER ALSO.
YOU COLLECT THIS EXCESS HEAT AND CONVERT IT TO ELECTRICITY (SOLID STATE).
AT SOME POINT YOU DECIDE THAT YOU'VE FORCED ENOUGH OF THE HYDROGEN TO SQUEEZE THROUGH THE NICKEL AND TURN INTO HYDRINOS.
YOU KNOW HAVE A MIXTURE OF HYDRINOS AND HYDRINO IONS AND OPEN THE FIRST CHAMBER AND LET OUT THE REGULAR HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN GAS.
THEN YOU DO A REGULAR FUELL CELL WITH ALL OF THAT.
THE HYDRINOS HAVE A HIGHER BINDING ENERGY THAN REGULAR HYDROGEN SO YOU COME OUT AHEAD.
THE BIG QUESTION (IN MY MIND) IS HOW ARE THEY CONVERTING THE HEAT TO ELECTRICTY?
If it's solid state then as far as I know it has to be either thermocouple with ultraconductor, or some sort of trick with the new Gandolinium compound and a small magnetic field or I'm just not paying attention enough to the details and the full 100 degree range is partly because of gas expansion.
aironeous |
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To (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, October 19, 2003 @ 06:33:19 UTC | Here is what to do...(detective work)
Go around..in person..and talk to the local PIZZA DELIVERY businesses....I AM NOT KIDDING..
The Police do it in my suburb..
These pizza delivery guys get around..all over town..they know of all the folks who are working late..they get to hear all kinds of "gossip"..they know all the NEW STUFF..going on..
DO IT...
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You said Do it...I did it (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 @ 20:12:28 UTC | I also live and work in the Boise area and after reading that Baldy paid a visit to GWE's PR firm and Mike Boss, I thought I would do some investigating of my own:
Here's what I learned....
I first stopped by Guy Rome and stopped a woman who was leaving - turned out to be one of the owners - Theresa. I told her I was interested in Genesis and if she could tell me more about them. She replied that their services were no longer being retained by Genesis for some time that she knew little more about them than what was available on the website she then said she was in a hurry and had to go. I asked her if she thought Geneis was legit. She said that they had always believed what they had been told otherwise they would have never worked for them and she wouldn't comment any further. She left....
So I paid a trip to Mike Boss who is one floor up from them. AND HERE IS WHAT I FOUND OUT...WHICH SOUNDS LIKE THE REAL REASON. He was not in so I asked if the lady who was in the lobby if she knew anything about Genesis. We talked for quite a while about what she thought of the whole thing - She said she knew very little about what was happening with them recently but she went on to say that they also had not done any work for them since June. I aksed her if she knew why and she said that Mike Boss had stopped working with Guy Rome because they did not get paid from them. Boss told her that Guy Rome had not been able to collect their fees from Genesis!!! Boss was going to have to move out of the building and that Guy Rome wasn't doing much better. I guess that;s what happens when you get in bed with the devil. I would say here is our answer to the illusive question boys and girls. And I didn't have to deliver any pizzas. Looks like a rose by any other name would be called a scam!
Snoopy |
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Re: You said Do it...I did it (Score: 1)
by mlmitton on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 @ 21:59:57 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | Thanks Snoopy. You know, from what I've seen of Guy Rome's work on their website, I actually think they do really professional work. To the extent that they're just bystanders in all of this, I hope they've haven't been scammed as well.
John, have you confirmed that Guy Rome is off of Genesis?
I should also say, however, that in my experience, it can be very hard to get even legitimate companies to pay their bills on time. I work in litigation services, and leading law firms have been many months late in paying us. Big name corporate clients have also been very late paying us. (Funny how a company doesn't pay us until 6 months after we did the work for them, but that same company will ruin my credit rating if I'm a few days late paying a utility bill!) So I don't know if this counts as a slam dunk for the scam viewpoint.
So, if Guy Rome isn't handling their website anymore, then who is? The only thing I know is that in the summer time, the webmaster was (puportedly) someone named Shawn Bailey, and that said Bailey was writing from a computer in Boise. |
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Whose handling the website (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 @ 23:17:28 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | A guy named Vincent Jenks started working on their site around April and was still working on it in July. You can tell because he posts questions to asp and .net related newsgroups asking questions and including code snippets with "genesisworldenergy" in them. What a dufus. I have a post below showing why I think Guy-Rome was still on this account on August but that's not really a strong indication. I suppose we could look at the IPs we are getting for GWE and check if they are GRAI's or not. I'll take this to theitquestion where we might find more of that expertise.
It would have to hurt to pay for the bandwidth for those croocks while they are dragging your reputation from the mud and *not paying*. It's sad that in this recession, someone whose worked on some classy gigs in the past is stuck doing pro-bono work for a continuing criminal enterprize. I'm going to have to take Theressa out of my keywords. |
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Snoopy, GWE is just to ethical to pay their bills (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 @ 23:01:33 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | I had always wondered how they managed to pay their PR bill. There is no business named "Genesis World Energy". So how can they get a bank account to pay their bills? I wondered if they paid in cash or got a truly foolish lackey to write a check for them. Nothing made sense. I thought about asking Boss who it was that paid him for that gig anyway. Now we know, nobody!
It's like I used to wonder how to sacm was supposed to pay out when they claimed not to take any investments. The answer to that shows the same simple sleazy smarts; they sell stock.
While Boss gave up this work after 6 months of no pay it does seem that Guy-Rome worked the account at least till August. For a while when the genesisworldenergy domain registrations were getting transfered from Shaw to Lackey, that hot potato was in Guy-Rome's hands. And they still list GWE on their portfolio.
All the investors and now the contractors know that GWE/UFCT/GSCI don't do business on the up and up. They don't pay their taxes or their bills, they have one story or excuse after another for their investors. But the investors are convinced the device works. Of course, they don't know chemistry, and don't understand how the illusion can be built. Meanwhile the regular press knows that the claims are outlandish, but they don't know about the investors and the stiffed contrtactors and unpaid taxes (not that any of that is hard to find out).
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Need the other half of the story. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 @ 08:40:40 UTC | | Chipotle, you in all your resentment for GWE would obviously side with GR right from the start, me on the other hand would like to know why GWE dropped GR as the PR firm. There must be a reason. I would also ask GR if they didn't get paid for all or some of their work. Maybe GWE wasn't happy with something. I need to know the other half of the story before I pass judgment. |
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Re: Snoopy, GWE is just to ethical to pay their bills (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 @ 15:54:28 UTC | You and that person on the street obviously have too much time on your hands.
I am a Psychology major and live in Boise. I have followed your writings on various posts. You display an enormous amount of aggression/anger.
You are an outsider who would love to be on the inside or at one time on the insight and are now on the outside. Get a life or help from a professional.
AGGRESSION/ANGER
Level V: Become aware and neutralize unconscious causes of aggression.
Transactional Analysis describes several common interactions that either degrade and hurt others or build one's ego at the expense of someone else. For example, a person might unconsciously place others in a position to fail and thereby make themselves look super competent. Much of our gossip is an "Ain't it awful!" game in which we get support from each other by putting down others. Read more about games in chapter 9.
Disliking others is costly. Research confirms that hot headed, hostile people prone to cynical, antagonistic interactions are, as you might expect, less open-minded, less tolerant, less understanding, less socially responsible, Look for unconscious payoffs. Conscious payoffs were discussed above, including using the threat of anger to manipulate others. At the semi-conscious or unconscious levels there are more hidden rewards, such as a boss blustering around implying some people may be fired to build his/her own ego.
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Source not cited, -1 ... (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 @ 16:53:58 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Projection -2. Overall a poor analysis. Want to try again? So where is it they teach undergrads to diagnose by reading posts? I guess I'll have to go to "chapter 9" of your unnamed book for the whole story.
Does MOTSB really have too much time on his hands, or is he just more curious than you? Please explain your answer.
And remind us why I would want to be on the inside of a scam. Do I want to get ripped off? I couldn't find an easier way to do that? Please explain. |
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Re: Snoopy, GWE is just to ethical to pay their bills (Score: 1)
by MOTSB on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 @ 19:28:52 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | Dear Psych Major,
Its a good thing you're not a Physics Major. Don't quit your day job writing on the little pieces of paper in fortune cookies. I think you might have something there....Ask Diane at Guy Rome or Michael Boss if I seem angry or aggressive. I think they might give you a little different description. Is it so strange that someone may seek the truth? Were you raised in a closet or have you noticed that scams are EVERYWHERE. A person that I highly respect would always say 24/7 there are people out there trying to separate you from your money.
Do you believe in all free energy devices or just this one in particular, because their website is so pretty? Am I such a bad guy because I feel offended that scam artists can operate in the open, in broad daylight in my home town? This is your homework assignment. Why don't you take a consensus of 10 responsible SELF SUFFICIENT people that you look up to as pillars of society and get their take on this whole scene. Report back and describe the people, their age, and their opinions...I know you will get the same reaction as I get , They will think that you are just plain crazy and that you have WAY too much time on your hands....It looks like this thing is coming to a conclusion in the next few months...If they are crooks, then now is the time we need to expose them before they leave town. If they are legit....BIG IF, then they have nothing to worry about, and shouldn't be offended by cautious citizen looking out for the less savy among us. Why would Micheal Boss and Guy Rome and Asssoc. be on thier way out of the Hoff building if in 1 or 2 months after we get Edison Devices they will both be the most famous PR companies in all history...GWE, don't take people to [Edited -ZPEnergy Webmaster] Radcliff and say that the house has been running on Edison Device for a year, because I went there and the meter is running and the gas is also hooked up. I'm easy to get a hold of...contact me and convince me. Thats all I ask...I will comply happily to your nondisclosure...in fact I will kiss your ass......MOTSB |
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Re: Exposing Snoopy (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 07:51:21 UTC | Okay MOTSB - I did as you suggested and asked GR. You kind of forgot to tell everyone that you were asked to leave GR's office and you were asked not to return. In fact, you asked to use their phone and you abused the privledge by using vulgar profanity in front of young children. When I asked them about you, the words mentally imbalanced came up. BTW, GR is still supporting GWE, their role evolved when GWE went into production. They also told me that the things written about them and Michael Boss being unhappy with their relationship with GWE were categorically untrue. So much for that BS.
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Re: Exposing Snoopy (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 08:57:29 UTC | Ah, the sluts and nuts tactic, are you a Politician?
I find it hard to believe that if, in today’s security conscious world, MOTSB behaved as you state that he wouldn’t be in protective custody right now.
Instead of attacking the individual why don’t you provide so substantive support of your position? Have GR put some supportive statement on their website as to their belief in this project. |
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Re: Exposing Snoopy (Score: 1)
by MOTSB on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 09:44:44 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | Who are you ? Are you deliberately lying or are you just misstaken? I think you better contact Diane and Micheal again, because I think you got me mixed up with someone else in several cases....First of all, I am not the individual who posted that I talked to the receptionist. My post describes a long and pleasant conversation with both of these people. Why would I describe them as very open and cooperative and sincere appearing, if I was thrown out of the place? In my previous post I said "Diane , My little friend says Daine is pretty and nice and says Hi"...........
That little freind of mine was my 4 year old daughter whom they loved. Not trying to be sneaky or anything, but that may be the reason why I had no problem seeing them...My little girl had fun going downtown and going in a big building. Now I just put out the facts. I may state an opinion now and then, but I have NO VESTED INTEREST in lying to anybody! Why do you think I even am interested in this stuff if I didn't wish it were true,,, If I didn't wish that by some long shot lottery winning chance or fantasy that I was wrong, and that I may witness a true miracle....... so my friend, U got the wrong guy. |
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Isn't anonymity great (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 11:42:17 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | So along with the scams that you run hiding behind anonymity, you also slander and threaten from behind your namelessness. How long have you been doing this? Did it start when Shane was fired from his last job, or was the Kelly family always running businesses where anonymity was an asset? I love it that you don't even deny what we should have known all along, that GWE doesn't pay anybody, can't pay anybody, because they don't exist.
OT - GR has young children in the office often? Writing copy for the GWE website maybe?
To Vlad - If you allow anonymous character assassination, the only posters you will get will be either anonymous or battle hardened. Mostly anonymous (checked the ratio of registered to anon bylines lately?). Wouldn't it be nice if regular people could post without expecting anonymous responses like, oh
John L ? what if the truth is you are an attorney out to slander and cause trouble for lets say two peopl ethat hired you to do it for the large corporation you represent. Oh now there info, I hear you are a lawyer and not what you claim to be, [cut] I think this lawyer got hold of information and is trying to make a mess out of other peoples projects, YOU Dush! I say POST YOUR FULL NAME, WHERE YOU LIVE AND WHERE YOU REALLY WORK AND hell post your drivers license information if you are ligit you try to name people that want to be nameless I hope for your sake that these poeple already have private investigators working on you! Please step in front of a bus you FONY! I care YA BULL SHIT!
newquote
Oh ya thats right, you are representitive of the little whiney Jews that ethnic jokes are made of.
newquote
John L. Could you tell us about the nature of your relationship with Ms Perry and would you also comment on your postion at the technology company you work for. Whats your position there?
newquote
Fact is that these peole have assembled an investigative team and is searching into you so deep that all is going to be posted on the net for all to see and it is my understanding from the person I spoke to is that a buch of different people will be filing suit at you all at once, BOY I HOPE YOU AND YOUR EMPLOYER have DEEP POCKETS!
BLACK MAIL JOHN, REALLY? Whats with that?
[I dunno. What is with that? Anyone want to make that charge with their names signed to it? File a police report maybe? Cut.]
Fact - I live in your neiborhood and have been assisting withthe investigative team into your affairs SO ARE you affraid to contradict yourself here on line and have it differ from what the investigators release
Most people don't want to take part in a discussion like that, and it's what happens when you allow a continuing criminal enterprise post anonymously. GWE doesn't care any more about not ruining your forum than it cares about the investors it's ripping off or the vendors it's stiffing. Myself, I've eaten so many chipotles and that now I need pequins to feel the heat. And I like the heat. |
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Re: Isn't anonymity great (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 16:21:02 UTC | | What's the matter pickle, you've done nothing but slander these guys since day one and when anybody throws anything back at you you cry about it? It took me ten bucks and a few minutes to find out GWE is legit corporation with no legal actions pending against it. I wonder how they do that without paying their bills? |
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What state are they in? (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 16:53:52 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | This is pretty hard to believe. GWE isn't even supposed to be a corporation, but a partnership. What state are they in? I'll check as well.
What I write about them isn't slander because it's true. |
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Re: What state are they in? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 17:56:45 UTC | No need to spend the ten bucks -- go to the GWE website -
that information is available on the GWE website under "About us" under Our Business:
Business Organization
GWE Technologies, LLC
A Delaware Limited Liability Corporation
Genesis World Energy™, GWE™, and GWE Technologies™ and related logos are
trademarks of GWE Technologies, LLC. All rights reserved.
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Thanks. That's new. (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 18:08:32 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | I'll check this out tomorrow and see what I find. This is a change since they used to claim to be a partnership. I wonder who they say is in charge of the corporation. |
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Re: Thanks. That's new. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 24, 2003 @ 10:47:44 UTC | | The LLC, if elected, can be treated as a partnership for federal purposes. Instead of partners it has members and the income from which flows to the members like partnership income to its partners The advantage over the partnership is better liability protection. So I guess it's not too strange that they consider themselves a partnership. |
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And just last month, they (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 19:55:35 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | I do wonder why they changed from calling themselves a partnership to calling themselves a corporation. This was in their first Q&A article, and stayed there for a long time:
http://members.cox.net/john.lichtenstein/partnership.jpg
I remember we went round and round about that when the rumor first circulated to some (not all) UFCT shareholders that their UFCT shares would be converted to GWE shares and I pointed out that they can't because it's (supposed to be) a partnership. All the GWE defenders went on and on about why it's better for them to be a partnership rather than a corporation (tax avoidance again). Lots of laughs.
It's worth spending the $10 to verify the info and find out when they registered. |
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More funny business with names (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 22:10:27 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | GWE Technologies was a UK firm that did java development (JDK stuff it looks like) and went out of business in (apparently) 2000.
"The Edison Device" is a film by Timothy Hines, a filmmaker from Seattle, which is where Shane Kelly lives (and "CK" also?).
Someone has a sense of humor at least. |
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GWE existance challenge now over? (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, October 24, 2003 @ 11:27:54 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Back in March (or so) I reported that GWE is not registered in the west. I offered a $100 reward for the first person to show that GWE existed before I announced the reward. This was back when GWE was still supposed to be a partnership. Well they finally did register, as a corporation (?!) on 2003-09-23. So it appears more unlikely than ever that there ever was a Genesis World Energy Partners. And the GWE corporation is only a month old. The agents are Capital Corporate Services.
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Re: GWE existance challenge now over? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 24, 2003 @ 12:00:25 UTC | | So GWE exists as a legal company? In which State? Also what about the TM issues? Are the trademarks registered and to whom? |
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Yes. As of last month (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, October 24, 2003 @ 12:51:33 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Look up thread. They are in Delaware. I don't know how to do trademark searches.
I have no idea what it means for the NDAs that people signed that they were not a company when the NDAs were written, or what it means about the trademarks that they started using them for a year before. |
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Re: Yes. As of last month (Score: 1)
by mlmitton on Saturday, October 25, 2003 @ 02:08:44 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | | You can do trademark searches at uspto.gov. I've gone through and checked for their three trademarks, and I can find no sign of them being registered with the USPTO. However, as long as you're only using the 'TM' symbol and not the 'R' with a circle symbol, you do not need to be registered with the USPTO, or even have applied to register the wordmark. |
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GWE Technologies, we hardly knew you (Score: 1)
by TilEulenspiegel on Saturday, June 11, 2005 @ 21:10:27 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com/ | The agent for GWE Technologies resigned in 2005-02. The registration for United Fuel Cell Technologies is "void". Whose name is on the contracts these days, now that World Energy Management, Genesis Scientific, GWE Technologies, and United Fuel Cell Technologies are revoked, defaulted, forfeited, and void?
http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com/2005/06/genesis-world-energy-deleware.html
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Re: What state are they in? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 18:00:30 UTC | | It was way to simple to check out. Do your own research. I've been doing my own resaerch on GWE and comparing it to what you've been writing. I can't find anything you've written about them that checks out. |
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Re: Hold on folks.. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 @ 01:33:34 UTC | Let us try to take "THE HIGH ROAD" on this.
Of course, no one wants anybody to get "scammed".
Let's try and give some benefit of the doubt to GWE as they may be "on to" just what they claim. They may be really "over their heads" a bit..overworked..and not getting enough sleep.
That said..GWE..!!!..hello!!!
I want an Edison Device..I need one...have cash!!
...please try and pay your bills GWE!!!
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What is the Tallest and most Secure Building in Boise? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 01:45:32 UTC | | What is the Tallest and most Security Conscious Building in Boise?...anyone know?..discounting Government Buildings. |
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Re: What is the Tallest and most Secure Building in Boise? (Score: 1)
by mlmitton on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 02:09:22 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | Tallest? Yes--US Bank Plaza at Capitol and Main. (For the moment anyway--something taller is under construction). 20 Stories. A couple blocks away from the capitol building.
Why does this matter? |
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Re: What is the Tallest and most Secure Building in Boise? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 02:37:10 UTC | | What type of building is The Genesis Building.. in Boise?? |
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Re: What is the Tallest and most Secure Building in Boise? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 02:41:57 UTC | mlmitton,
The new 20 story building..who owns it?..what's the story on it? |
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Re: What is the Tallest and most Secure Building in Boise? (Score: 1)
by MOTSB on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 09:53:41 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | | Not the Hoff building....it has a disco on the top floor!? |
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Who is this guy? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 02:31:47 UTC | Tims, M Scott..Idaho State University Staff
Project Coord, Genesis Project... 282-5312
Stdt Health Ctr Box 8141Email: mstims@aol.com
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Funny business with names (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 10:21:45 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | It's a Patrick Kelly calling card to name his scams something that sounds like a lot of other things. "General Systems Companies" is hard to Google for because "General Systems" is an active topic of study. "United Fuel Cell Technologies" abbr UFCT is easy to confuse with the name of an actual player in fuel cells, UTC Fuel Cells. And Genesis is the name of a whole bunch of projects, including some even on energy, and some on history, and this social group. LOL. |
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A Response By The Genesis Team (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 20, 2003 @ 12:28:58 UTC |
Dear ZPenergy Readers,
The Genesis Team appreciates your suggestions, questions and concerns. We hope you will grow to share our knowledge that security trumps revelation. A great deal of scientific research, thought, effort and energy, using valid and reliable principles of physics, engineering and chemistry, went into these technologies. We have carefully and thoroughly analyzed the issues we face and developed effective and efficient strategies that will best benefit mankind.
With Hope for a Better Future,
The Genesis Team
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Re: A Response By The Genesis Team (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 20, 2003 @ 13:06:23 UTC | | Why did you feel the need to respond? |
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Re: A Response By The Genesis Team Busted! motsb (Score: 1)
by MOTSB on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 @ 19:55:57 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | That is the question! No offense ZPenergy, but why do you feel the need to reply to a "Free Energy" Website? Why do you care about people who frequent these sites opinion of you unless these are the same gullible type people you are trying to get money out of(or keep the money you already got)?
Why do you care? Any bank in the world would lend you as much money as you want after they have seen that this thing is legit. Arent you far too busy with all these countries and auto companies to even care about us lunies?!?! So as my nephew Jerry Mcguire once said SHOW ME THE MONEY or shut up. MOTSB |
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Re: A Response By The Genesis Team Busted! motsb (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 07:59:22 UTC | | I'm sure it never occured to you that GWE might have been contacted by ZP Enegry and requested some support of the discussion. I think you are right though, I'm sure they probably don't care what anyone thinks. |
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Re: A Passionate Plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 23, 2003 @ 21:03:39 UTC | Do the research and understand that there is great need for a VERY care-filled process at this time. I am an approved licence applicant and have no 'proof of technology', BUT of course we will require that before we travel at our or GWE's expense to be a part of the next phase.
I am confident there is a real basis for this technology in existing patents that have entered the public domain. Some times it is needed to suspend the need to know and 'go with the flow' and I have decided that I must not give up my day job!! To manifest a scheme that will turn the existing status-quo and empower the general population is a task that requires the help of the divine heirarchy, so I ask the Ascended Masters to guide and assist us at this time we are confronting the darkest of forces within ourselves and the human animal. |
Re: A Passionate Plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy. (Score: 1)
by MOTSB on Friday, October 24, 2003 @ 01:34:41 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | This is greatly simplified and may not be exactly accurate, but I am trying to make everyone UNDERSTAND this. The cool thing about Oxygen is that when you combine it with Hydrogen they end up sharing an electron. That is how they connect. Now you have an extra electron. What do we do with it? It manifests itself in the form of heat or ENERGY. Great! you have a party or whatever and you blow all that energy on whatever it is you want to do with it. That is what you are doing when you BURN Hydrogen. The hard thing to comprehend is that WATER is produced by burning or OXIDIZING Hydrogen... H2O.... Now if you want to get Oxygen and Hydrogen back apart you have to provide Energy or an electron, so that both Oxygen and Hydrogen can EVEN EXIST on there own... PERIOD!!!!!. This is not debatable and it directly pertains to the LAWS OF OUR UNIVERSE!!!!!So OK just this once "THE GENIE" will give you an electron and now you got Hydrogen and Oxygen and boom you did it again! You burned Hydrogen(combined Oxygen and Hydrogen and produced water)...you now have energy...you have a party and now you don't have any energy to make Oxygen and Hydrogen into separate entaties... "OH GENIE!"....anyways so when we SAY we are splitting water into Hydrogen and Oxygen that is not correct and I don't care WHO says it!!!!...we are BUILDING UP Hydrogen and Oxygen into viable entities!BUILDING UP BUILDING UP BUILDING UP.....FORGET SPLITTING!!!!! IT IS A MISNOMER!!!!!!! The last time I checked misnomers donot produce energy!!!!!"THE GENIE" in my example DOESN'T EXIST!!!!..... So we are left with 2 possibilities either we have discovered an exception to "THE LAWS OF OUR UNIVERSE" or we have conquered them. The only problem with LAWS of THE UNIVERSE is if you find an exception to the law THAN THAT MEANS THAT THAT LAW DOES NOT EVEN EXIST!!!!!Now the second possibility is that you conquered or fooled THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE...the other term for this is MAGIC or GOD....so I guess we have 3 possibilities of how the EDISON DEVICE works....either it runs on a MISNOMER...or it proves that THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE do not exist.(Not even Einstein could do that!)or it is MAGIC, GOD,ALCHEMY or THE DEVIL.....Take your pick....that is it!!!!Are you still with me? This is not rocket science people... As a matter of fact it is just highschool Chemistry and/or Physics. That is the saddest thing. This is exacty why they teach chemistry in highschool, so we don't all don't run around
clueless, helpless and taken advantage of. Anthony Marchetti told us that the film on the fuel cell is a catalyst and is not the source of the energy needed to BUILDING UP THE HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN into viable entities....so what is???....GENESIS SAYS..... IT IS "THE MOLECULAR MISSNOMER STRUCTURE OF WATER!!!". DON"T GET LOST IN THE DETAILS unless they directly and completely support the LAWS OF OUR UNIVERSE! Don't even listen to the guy that says he hooked a motor to a generator, and a generator to a battery and the battery to the motor and soon with the latest detailed innovations in batteries,motors, and generators, the power generated from the generator will exceed the power needed by the motor and wallah!!! we have free energy....oh yea!!!! It doesn't matter how efficient the motor/gen/battery is they will NEVER BREAK THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE!!!so don't give me details.... I don't need'um! .....Genesis just tell me IN THE ABSTRACT how your little generator works and don't tell me the battery or the motor has been upgraded or that you have found a way to harness the power from a missnomer....I don't buy it.
I think either you have a big scam in the works or you have already and are on your way to Mexico....
When I was a kid, pyrmid schemes were rampant....The most successful one was called "AN AIRPLANE" They said that since it was an AIRPLANE instead of a PYRIMID that it was legal and legit, but I calculated that within several weeks the whole world would in on it and then it would collapse...but We did'nt care because we were counting the money we were going to bring in.
Guess what? It did collapse and the organisers were no longer in the local motel.... they were long gone!!!!WISHFUL THINKING...... |
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Re: A Passionate Plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 24, 2003 @ 04:59:07 UTC | My Friend..
You are closed minded, arrogant, and too steeped.
From where did you learn these laws?
Who is to gain from your insistence..Those who publish college text books?
Explain to me ..using your laws...SYNCRONICITY...
You can not do it because you do not know what it is. You have not experienced it. No established institute of higher learning teaches it.
Let GWE be what it is.....
Keep your money in your pocket if you must.
Let this play out...sit back and relax.
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Re: A Passionate Plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy. (Score: 1)
by MOTSB on Friday, October 24, 2003 @ 11:29:52 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | OK ...Is that the best you got? Is that going to be the new 3rd law of thermodynamics or is it a sequel to the Conservation of Matter and Energy stating "Energy can neither be created or destroyed EXCEPT WHEN STATING THE MAGIC WORD........SYNCHRONICITY!!!!!!" Wow and I thought the word SHAZAM was the magic word.....
Another passionate plea by an ANONAMOUS person to just SIT and WAIT and DON'T make a fuss. Are we sheep or are we men? I think Chiptole is correct I'm seeing a pattern here....I know I asked for an ABSTRACT explanation of how the Edison device could even THEORETICALY work, but I was hoping for more than ONE WORD and an insult.....
Try registering and posting, you still stay anonamous to the PUBLIC, but later on when this scam has gone through, the authorities could follow-up and verify everyone is who or what they say they are....I did it because I have nothing to hide FROM THE AUTHORITIES that is or are they part of the EVIL AXIS....MOTSB |
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It's two bonds, and the electrons are shared (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, October 24, 2003 @ 13:14:06 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | Water's not charged. The number of electrons in water is the same as the number of electrons in the H2 and O2 that burnt to make it. It's just that the lower energy electrons can be traded for higher energy ones at the rate of 2 electrons per molecule when H2 is burnt with a fuel cell. The maximum possible potential difference that can be harvested in a fuel cell (or in just burning H2 for that matter) is the same as the minimum that has to be paid to unburn it, about 1.2V. And you are correct later that synchronicity isn't enough to account for 1.2V. |
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Re: It's two bonds, and the electrons are shared (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 24, 2003 @ 20:19:58 UTC | You are exactly right, chipotle_pickle
And the essence is.........There is no such thing as a free lunch.... The energy has to come from somewhere ....so much for beating THAT dead horse....GWE care to enlighten?
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Re: It's two bonds, and the electrons are shared (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, October 25, 2003 @ 03:38:37 UTC | While we wait for GWE to enlighten...
...why not we all spend some quality time reviewing some US patents.
Here are two that I find interesting.
6,126,794
4,936,961
Go here first..
http://www.uspto.gov/
then follow the "Patent Search"...to...
..."Patent Number Search"...
then enter the Patent number, include the commas,
and hit "Search". (You will probably have to download the "viewer" in order to see "Images").
Interested
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GWE compared to Xogen (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Sunday, October 26, 2003 @ 10:11:41 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Xogen probably deserves more treatment than a reply to a chemistry clarification thread in a GWE story. Why not write an article about it? It certainly would be worthwhile for the UFCT shareholders to see how long a unfeasible technology can string investors along without any revenue. This is a recent Usenet thread on Xogen, showing several more patents: http://tinyurl.com/sesb.
The UFCT shareholders probably won't be as patient as the Xogen ones. For one thing, Stan Meyer's more skeptical investors sued him and the only ones left over are the true believers. The UFCT folks haven't been through that filter yet. Also, Meyer ran things more on the up and up, appearing at conferences, making his own statements and such. All the cloak and dagger machinations, unpaid taxes, and ever changing story from GWE/UFCT make them look scammier. Maybe I'm kidding myself, but I just don't think the GWE/UFCT investors folks will watch the White House change hands 3 times before they figure out they have been conned. |
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Re: GWE compared to Xogen (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, October 26, 2003 @ 14:25:22 UTC | | Pickle, If you are convinced this is a scam, and, you are not an investor. Why then, such an interest in UFTC/GWE? Also, why haven't you updated your web site? |
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Re: GWE compared to Xogen (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 27, 2003 @ 07:48:51 UTC |
You have to understand, it's an all or nothing fight for Pickle. He knows that once GWE's products are on the market, he and a lot of other people that have enabled him in his efforts to bad mouth and interfere will probably be buried in litigation for years and years with no defense. If anyone feels sorry for he or his enablers, don't. His actions were intentional and crossed the line into criminal activities. I promise you, it will all come out. |
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Re: GWE compared to Xogen (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 27, 2003 @ 12:19:46 UTC | | I agree. What's his motive. |
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Re: GWE compared to Xogen (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 27, 2003 @ 16:48:25 UTC | Yea! WHATS HIS MOTIVE!
MYSTERIOUS is the KEY WORD.....
This MYSTERIOUS company makes a MYSTERIOUS claim of a MYSTERIOUS device of a MYSTERIOUS origin, operating in a MYSTERIOUS manner and design.
A NOT SO MYSTERIOUS GUY voices not so mysterious doubts to a bunch of not so mysterious people.
I think he has a valid position untill the time that he abandons the facts and pursues fancy.
Till then, he is an Advocate to the community in my opinion providing critical perspective and balance.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATIOn..........MOTSB
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Re: GWE compared to Xogen (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 27, 2003 @ 17:21:06 UTC | | How do we know Pickle hasn't "pursued fancy" already? It appears far to personal. He's obviously had contact with P. Kelly/UFTC, in some form. Pickle referred to him as "Patty" in an earlier posting. Seems a little too familiar to me. But, I do agree, we do not have enough information. |
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Re: GWE compared to Xogen (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 27, 2003 @ 18:09:15 UTC | It may be personal to him for reasons that are not obvious. I've learned that neither Kelly nor UFCT have had any contact with him. However, he threatened (in writing) to publish falsehoods about them all over the Internet and destroy their businesses if they did not comply with his demand to publicly denounce the project and the technology. They refused to comply and he made good on his threats.
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For the irony impaired (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Monday, October 27, 2003 @ 18:56:34 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | We have here an anonymous smear campaign accusing me of threatening a smear campaign against, unnamed parties. (Kelly and his businesses? Does this mean I have talked to Kelly after all?) Maybe we could see some evidence on this. Be specific.
Boy, these anonymous posts sure add a lot to the discussion. |
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Re: GWE compared to Xogen (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 27, 2003 @ 18:37:31 UTC | | MOTSB, the thing I don't understand is what exactly do you or Pickle have to lose from GWE? Are statements like yours really balanced? They haven't asked anyone for anything, not even money from people that want to preorder or money from licensees until they have checked everything out. Did they go to your state or community and ask for funding or tax breaks? I'm sure we would have heard about it if they did. From what I can see, they didn't even ask you to believe until their products are out. Is that a bad thing? Tell you what, if their products come out I'll buy them, try them out and give you a firsthand report so you don't have to spend your own money. |
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It's a scam. Nobody has anything to lose (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Monday, October 27, 2003 @ 19:04:40 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | who doesn't buy in. But a lot of people have bought in. Who knows, others still might (though that seems pretty far fetched). |
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Re: GWE compared to Xogen (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 27, 2003 @ 23:51:52 UTC | | Don't worry, I got a bunch ordered. I can see for myself and make my own conclusions when and if that time comes. This technology would make my field/positiion very exciting. I hope its real and if I can't have that. I just want to know the truth someday soon.....till then I'm the MOTSB |
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Re: GWE compared to Xogen (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 27, 2003 @ 17:47:50 UTC |
I can't tell you what John’s (pickle) motives are, but I and others intend to enlist the courts to find out. His goal is to stop GWE's progress any way he can. He writes what he does to intentionally inflict damage on GWE and UFCT relationships. However, what he writes here and everywhere else about GWE is just a part of his efforts.
His actions in addition to what he writes are very telling about his character and malicious intent. For example, whenever he becomes aware of what he suspects is a GWE business relationship, he contacts the party directly and does everything he can to bring that relationship to a close under the threat of going to the company's customers and/or regulatory agencies and making false statements about them intended to destroy their sources of income and their ability to continue to conduct business. If they do not cooperate with him by denouncing their relationship with GWE publicly, he proceeds to make good on his threats. I am aware of several of these instances and the fact that he is constantly filing grossly false complaints against GWE with federal and state agencies. His efforts started within two days of GWE’s December 2002 announcement.
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Isn't filing a false police report a crime? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, October 27, 2003 @ 19:28:32 UTC | | Shouldn't someone do something about that? |
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Re: Isn't filing a false police report a crime? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 @ 07:01:15 UTC |
Yes, it is a crime. Criminal charges and civil lawsuits are being filed in a number of jurisdictions. |
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Isn't this taking a long time; can I help? (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 @ 19:28:06 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | The lawsuits against John were first discussed months ago. What's the holdup? I live in the same gated development as John, and I would be happy to buzz you in to serve him notice. Is there anything else holding up the lawsuits? |
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That was supposed to be anon. (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 @ 19:34:24 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | Sorry to spoil the joke. Of course I would be delighted to hear from lawyers from any of these unnamed aggrieved parties. I had hoped to egg them on for a while to see if I could get them to start explaining why these lawsuits never happen. |
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Re: GWE compared to Xogen (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 @ 08:50:31 UTC | I don't think Chipotle's actions are are being driven by other parties. It sounds like he is digging for information to satisfy his own curiosity. However, if what you say is true then I would be greatly disappointed in Chipotle for using those methods. It is the very people he is filing those complaintes to who are the ones who help supress free energy. If he tries to get the government to probe GWE then I wouldnt be suprised if they come in and claim the technology for "National Secuity" and if that is the end result, I think Chipotle will have created many enemies.
Chipotle, if it is an uncontrollable urge for information that has got you calling state and federal governments in hopes that they publicly release whatever information they find. i would suggest that you find other methods of satisfying your curiosity. Im not saying that you should stop entirely ( i find your comments amusing and entertaining), just keep the government out of it for now.
Free Power for all!!
KD |
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To KD and Pickle (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 @ 10:30:05 UTC | | I couldn't agree more. I want Pickle man to continue exposing the inconsistencies, however I don't want the government to interfere by controlling this technology, if it is real. That said, lets get back to the original question, why don't you update your website Pickle? What is the problem? You seem to have a lot more to say. And yes, I shall remain anonymous. |
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Re: GWE compared to Xogen (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 @ 19:17:03 UTC | I for one don’t take Pickle’s words and actions as lightly. Looking at these new revelations about what he has done and analyzing the tone of what he has written about GWE to create perspective, I'm convinced it all adds up to his using the same type of scum ball tactics politicians and businesses use to ruin people and competitors they want removed from the picture. Can anything else really make sense? Could curiosity truly drive a person to undertake such intentionally harmful acts? I for one don't think so!
Who gave this guy the right to do things that might interfere with my or my children’s future choices? Regardless of whether it’s GWE or anyone else that invents something new and beneficial to the world, if these type of actions (or people that use his actions as a model) end up deriving humanity of something that would have made the world a better place, is he any less harmful than the worst terrorist?
Again, I for one don't think so!
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Yes very curious (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 @ 20:04:35 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | KD -
There is no free energy to suppress. There is nobody anyplace paid to suppress free energy.
I am not particularly curious about the Edison or the crazy theory behind it. But I am very curious about people, how they think, and what makes them do the things they do. I find situations where people stop thinking and where moral standards are suspended to be especially interesting. What would be great is if all the investors and insiders would write down little diaries of their involvement. Write down who introduced you, how did they overcome skepticism, how did you feel when you read John's or Professor Park's comments on GWE. It's important to record this now because our memories change with the acquisition of new information. In January 2005, when there are no units for sale anyplace, 1 million below current estimates, everyone is going to remember how they were all pushing for more proof and how they were opposed to the smear campaign against John (me). But what's interesting is what you think now that you are acting without the benefit of the knowledge of a year from now.
Of course in 2005 some people will still think the Edison was for real and be wondering how is was suppressed. But most people will see reason. I want to understand how a sane person falls into madness and how he can be called back.
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Re: Yes very curious (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 @ 20:31:58 UTC | | Are any of those accusations being made in the post above accurate? Some off us still see the possibility of GWE being a true technology. I personaly think that GWE is not reveling their technology because like they said on their web site "its been there all along, we were just not looking at it that way" They just used components of different existing technologies to create what they did. This may be why they are not reveling how their process works because it can be easily replicated. Just my thought but what I really want to know is if you did the things they post above is accusing you of. |
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Let them explain (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 @ 21:11:34 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Often I have no clue how to map their claims to reality. Sometimes I think know what they are talking about, but that they are adding to it to make something innocent sound bad. But I would rather they simply make some claim of the form "John demanded $x from the person of y. The basis of John's threat was that ...". The reason why these claims are made anonymously is to make it impossible for me to respond using the courts. That the fantasy prone operators of this site allow anonymous slander is part of the madness I would like to understand better.
If I am committing crimes or torts, why can't they call me into court? Honestly, for them to sue me would save me a lot of bother.
Your interpretation of GWE's claims would make them unprotectable. They demonstrated the "invention" 18 months ago and have not filed for a patent. You can't wait more than a year to file. If it can't be protected with secrets, it can't be protected at all. This is an impossible invention, that's in the public domain, sold to investors in 2001, announced in 2002, by a company registered in 2003. They claim they started building their devices in 2003, one month before they registered, and that they will build a million units per day by the end of next year, while their only physical locations known at this point are Mail Boxes Etceteras. Tell me when we get to the plausible part of this story. |
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Re: GWE compared to Xogen (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, April 26, 2004 @ 00:26:55 UTC | Your a fool free energy dosent exist, you must eat right. Well GWE must eat to, and it does so off your misled hopes and dreams for a free ride. Basic physics state there is no free lunches in the universe. All actions are met with equal and oposite reaction, not twice the reaction and not half the reaction. If GWE has a device that can output more energy than is put in then the universe will explode into another cosmic bang. E=mc^2 is not equal to E^2=mc^2 which is what GWE is trying to sell you. This is a scam, and if you want to belive it you can.
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Bothsides: STOP FIGHTING! (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 @ 23:51:39 UTC | First of all, I don't know if GWE is legit or not. Personally, I "think" that they have a significant chance of being a legitimate company. But of course there are also major questions left unanswered, only limited evidence if any, and absolutely NO proof of ANY of their claims.
There are both those on this board that:
1) Believe that free energy (NOT free but just extracted from another source, energy cannot be created out of nothing) is indeed possible and that eventually a team is going to produce a device, mass produce it, and not let it be suppressed.
2) Believe that almost everything significant in physics has already been discovered, there will be no new energy technologies ever discovered, if such a technology is discovered it will not be very significant, and that any company making a claim for "free energy" or even tapping energy from the "molecular structure of water" is a scam.
Personally, I believe that both sides have members with serious faults.
The first group contains some people who are a little too accepting of claims without evidence.
The second group is so critical if a company did have an amazing device they would not believe it until the company blew all their legal rights by letting a thousand other companies inspect it and steal all their ideas.
But this is the issue.
What we need to do is get to the bottom of the entire situation with GWE.
We don't have any proof that GWE is a scam and no proof that GWE is legit.
We do have some limited evidence of BOTH of the above. But NOTHING SOLID.
All we have are QUESTIONS.
Now, if any of us really *care* about this situation, we need to unite as a group (working together and pooling our resources) to find out if GWE is legit.
What can we do to find out? I don't know! But we must work together!
We must put our differences aside and try to find out what is going on with GWE.
I will give Chip Pickle (please forgive me for messing up your name) some credit for getting a lot of contact information. I appreciate that he has a desire to get to the bottom of things.
Now, we just need some of those who even disagree with him, and may even think that he is a horrible debunker, to basically work with him and get him to SHARE that contact info so that we can get to the bottom of GWE.
Basically, if none of us are being paid by the government or powers that be to either falsely support GWE or debunk GWE, we should ALL be able to put our PERSONAL DIFFERENCES BEHIND OURSELVES and find out if GWE is legit.
Anyone really want to get to the bottom of this? |
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Re: Bothsides: STOP FIGHTING! (Score: 1)
by MOTSB on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 @ 00:40:47 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | | Harray!.....I offer my services)free,legal) as MAN ON THE STREET IN BOISE!!!!!!! What shall we call you? |
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MOTSB get on that street and do something!!! (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 @ 17:52:09 UTC | Mr. MOTSB
Why don't you start by going back to Guy Rome? They are the only people who have had any firsthand dealings with GWE. They are the ones were involved with the introduction of this concept to us. You've already been there and you stated that you had a nice chat with one of their people. Can't you go back or call at least to do a little more digging? What happened to Snoopy? If GWE has no physical address - why don't you start with the only brick and mortar that exists. Ask them - why did they take this on - why did they get involved? Get out on that street instead of sitting in front of your computer and do something!!! For those of us who are not there - give us a glimpse from an insider's perspective. If they have been slighted don't you think they would cough up any information?
Go get them!! |
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There is no catch-22 here (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 @ 11:29:35 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | There are plenty of ways to show if the Edison device works as advertised or not without exposing how it works. GWE's claims they don't use them because they are afraid of people stealing their ideas are just misdirection. They have elected not to show that the device works as advertised only because it doesn't.
Even if they did say how it worked, if it worked, it could be protected with a patent. GWE says it wants to use secrecy rather than patents to protect its invention, but that makes no sense at all. Secrecy doesn't provide any legal protection. Anyone is legally free to reverse engineer anything that's not patented.
There just isn't a lot to find out because there is nothing there. Nobody even wants to be associated with the thing, so they don't even have any spokespeople anymore. Just a trail of MBE addresses. There is nobody to call, not even anybody to look up. This whole show is put on only to convince the investors that a business is being run where there is none. If you aren't an investor, GWE just doesn't care what you think about them and they aren't going to convince you they are not a scam.
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Re: There is no catch-22 here (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 @ 12:52:23 UTC | | John, again I ask. If it is SO painfully obvious to you this is a scam. Why waste so much time on such an obscure web site discussing it? I'm sure, with your mind, you can use your time in a more productive manor. |
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Nothing harder to open.... (Score: 1)
by Rastahal on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 @ 15:47:50 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://truthbells.com | Gang,
Please let me offer the following favorite phrase of mine:
"There is nothing harder to open than a closed mind"
While I respect John's opinion and feel he does contribute to the discussion, it seems his mind is closed to the POSSIBILITY of GWE being the real deal while the rest of us are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until we have solid evidence, either one way or the other.
This is like trying to change someone's believe in religious dogma...it's not easy...and some would say it's impossible.
An added note...I've checked into four or five websites that are currently calling GWE a scam.
Surprise, surprise...I follow the links back and end up each time at John's "GENESIS WATCH" page.
I think it's interesting that these folks are willing to believe John over Genesis and I wish I knew what he told them!
Come on, John...update that web page. If anyone can prove that GWE is a scam, you can! (But I'm willing to bet you can't ;-)
Onward,
RH
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Re: Nothing harder to open.... (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 31, 2003 @ 10:22:16 UTC | | "It is a far, far better thing to have a firm anchor in nonsense than to put out on the troubled sea of thought." John Kenneth Galbraith |
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Re: Bothsides: STOP FIGHTING! (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 30, 2003 @ 16:25:11 UTC | When it comes to investments, you don't make decisions on whether "we have questions but no proof whether they are legit or a scam".
You make investment decisions based on solid, proven, substantiated, documented, audited, sound, published, peer reviewed, analyst reviewed, data.
Didn't you people learn ANYTHING from the dot.com collapse that wiped out billions in investor equity?
Take a look at this European "Gennesis" (spelled in various ways),
http://project-energia.com/gennesis/index.html
and their claims of 24% DAILY return on ivestrment, 3.4 million per share, etc etc etc., ad nasuem, fool born every minuteism...and you will have a nice parallel for this GWE nonsense. Albeit GWE is doing a much more sophisticated job of scamming the investors who wll ALL lose 100% of whatever funds they foolishly invest than the offshore site above, (who also claim they will be doing demos shortly, manufacturing equipment, etc etc.), but the end result will be the same for investors in both scams.
You don't make financial investments based on faith, hope, whim, and "maybe they are legit" unless you absolutely expect to lose every penny. That will be the result here.
Legit companies publish massive amounts of accountable researchable data. Scientific breakthrough or no. Proprietary information can easily be protected without resorting to the obvious secrecy scam tactics and dearth of legit info we see here.
"Investors" in these scams are dewey eyed, true believer, sheep that deserve to be sheared. Anyone with a few working brain cells, take note and avoid being one of the world's stupidest sheep. |
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Re: Bothsides: STOP FIGHTING! (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 30, 2003 @ 17:56:51 UTC | Do you think Anthony is a liar?
He SAW these devices with his OWN EYES. He was even allowed to EXAMINE THEM.
Do you think he is a liar?
He SAW THE TECHNOLOGY?
Look, why cant we work together to pin down who exactly is in charge of GWE and find a way to contact them and 'nicely' ask them to give some evidence about the Edison device and see how they react?
I am tired of all the rudeness. We are acting like a bunch of bickering monsters.
If GWE is legit, I am sure they annoyed at ALL of us.
What we need to do is stop saying GWE is a scam or GWE is real. Apparently, Anthony saw a working GWE device. Was it really working? We cannot say until we have something a little more solid.
You see, I think that unless you think Anthony is a liar, GWE has produced "something". Does it work or not? We don't know!
Lets work together and get to the bottom of this!
Look at it this way...
Those who are skeptics- You will get your chance to prove GWE is a scam (what you say, NOT waht I say) once and for all.
Those who believe GWE is legit or at least give them the benefit of the doubt- you will be able to find out if GWE is legit or if they are a scam.
We just need to work together.
Personally, I think everyone on this board has contributed to this discussion!
I appreciate both the skeptics and those who support GWE.
I just wish someone (I am an amateur and the last person that would need to be a leader in something like this) would step up to the plate, get a group together with a NEUTRAL mission statement, and start finding out if GWE is legit or not.
NOT with a bunch of well they don't have this or they dont' have that.
But by finding out exactly who is in charge and peacefully, legally, lawfully, and NICELY trying to find out more about the Edison Device!
If the Edison Device is real it is going to change the entire world for the better!
I think it is time we put aside all these arguments and work together to find out something one way or the other.
Look, (to the supporters of GWE who think we should believe on blind faith) if GWE has given out their technology to 150 or more companies the powers that be ALREADY KNOW ABOUT THEM and ALREADY HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY.
So GWE has nothing to fear from releasing at least a LITTLE SOLID INFO about the Edison Device!
I do NOT know if GWE is real or if it is a scam.
But I want to find out!!!!!!
Don't YOU!
And skeptics, instead of just yelling at us that GWE is a scam, won't you just work with us and stop fussing at us long enough to help us get some evidence one way or the other? If GWE is a scam then you will be able to say I told you so.
If you want us to realize that GWE is a scam (what you say, not what I say) then why don't you work with us! Your screaming is NOT going to convince us!
Why won't all of you just stop fighting!
Seriously, we have wrote literally hundreds of posts about GWE without finding out ABSOLUTELY if GWE and their technology is REAL or NOT.
Don't we want to do something to find out one way or the other? I think we need to work together and legally, peacefully, and NICELY try to find out the truth about GWE.
Seriously, ALL SIDES LETS CALM DOWN!
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Anthony's report (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, October 30, 2003 @ 18:48:42 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Anthony's report was great. But Anthony made clear that he never checked the amount of "catalyst" (fuel) that was used up. There is no need to call Anthony a liar; he doesn't claim to be an expert in chemistry and didn't make any chemical observations. So Anthony was wide open to falling for a chemical trick such as burning a metal in water to release H2.
The person in charge is Patrick T Kelly. Try contacting him at patrick@GS-NET.COM. Good luck.
It might be nice if someone called Charles Shaw in Dumont as well. But I don't feel like it. And we don't want to hammer his phone either. Maybe one person can call - who lives in NJ? Ask if he's still involved. Ask what he thinks about the investors. Ask why there can't be a demonstration, for example, why the electric bill for the Eagle house can't be made public. |
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Re: Anthony's report (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, October 30, 2003 @ 20:46:29 UTC | | I personally know someone who spoke with Charles Shaw last week. Shaw said that he was no longer involved with GWE. I then asked about Nigella Shaw's (his mother's) involvement. He said that he could not comment and to direct any questions to GWE via e-mail. |
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Wow that's a pretty similar scam (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, October 30, 2003 @ 18:55:51 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | There certainly is a lot to be learned from that site. Can I ask the person who posted this to contact me privately so I can ask a little about it?
The point about the dewey eyed true believer sheep though is a tough one. The folks who lost money in the dot com bust didn't see themselves as dewey eyed true believers. The folks who thought that Worldcom really was doubling its internet volume every 3 months and really was laying a bunch of new cable trusted only that Arthur Anderson and the management at Worldcom were not conspiring to defraud them in broad daylight. And they were wrong. The lesson is that you always have to keep your eyes open.
beh
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Re: FACTS (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 31, 2003 @ 10:33:46 UTC | FACT: GUY-ROME IS NO LONGER WORKING WITH GWE.
FACT: CHARLES SHAW IS NO LONGER WORKING WITH GWE.
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The roster (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, October 31, 2003 @ 11:16:36 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | We got an anon report that Charles Shaw no longer works with them. This makes sense, since he gave the domain names to Guy-Rome (who gave them to Lackey). We don't need any more confirmation on that. But we have only one unconfirmed report that Michael Boss is not working with GWE anymore. Guy-Rome seems still to be working with them. So still working with GWE are
Guy-Rome (Theressa Guy)
Nejhla Shaw (NJ phone unlisted)
Darren Shaw (whereabouts unknown)
Patrick T. Kelly (patrick@GS-NET.COM doesn't answer mail)
Vincent Jenks (v.jenks@scientifik.com)
James Lackey (whereabouts unknown)
Shane Kelly (? possible. Location unknown. Maybe Seattle area) |
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Re: The roster (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 31, 2003 @ 15:17:02 UTC | Don't we know that this James Lackey is in the Boise area? Whats his connection again?
Add to the list, Diane Echevaria...she sounded like she really believed in this thing and saw the demo..Micheal was wishy washy last summer and was telling me about some other technolagy he was looking into using renuable energy/methenol or something...I asked him the obvious at the time. Won't the Edison make all of that obsolete?"We will see" was what he said. He was basicaly claiming that he in the dark along with everyone else at the time, with the exception of seeing a demonstration of the device in Eagle...Anybody know if Anthony Marchetti is fictitious or real and where?..motsb |
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The roster (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, October 31, 2003 @ 16:31:52 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | James Lackey is the current holder of the genesisworldenergy domains. He uses a (surprise) MBE address in Livermore (near San Fran).
Is Diana still working this?
Anthony M is probably a real investor, from NJ, like the others. |
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Re: The roster (Score: 1)
by mlmitton on Friday, October 31, 2003 @ 16:38:09 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | | The one email I've received from GWE was from someone named Shawn Bailey, apparently the webmaster at the time (mid summer). I don't know if that's a real person or not. I can tell you the email was sent from the Boise area. |
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Re: The roster (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 31, 2003 @ 17:13:53 UTC | Hi Folks, my name is Vincent Jenks (listed in "the roster").
Apparently you've all got more time on your hands than you know what to do with so you've decided to fixate yourselves on trivlal details.
I worked with Guy Rome & Assc. for approximately 6 months in which time I developed parts of the Genesis web site/application. Guy Rome was my client, Genesis was not.
I'm a sub-contractor and never once got involved in the business details of Genesis OR Guy Rome nor did I ever care to, nor do I ever care to in the future.
I have not worked with Guy Rome by any means in several months and do not even know who their clients are or what they're up to these days. Nor do I care to know.
I don't know who Patrick Kelly, James Lackley, or Shane Kelly are and I really am not sure how I ended up being associated with these people.
So, get a hobby, get a dog, or at the very least, get a life.
If you've got some sort of problem with any of the people listed above who might or might not be involved with Genesis or any of those people, feel free to ignorantly toss their names around the internet all you like, just leave me out of it.
Got questions? I honestly couldn't care less. Unfortunately I have no answers for you. However, feel free to email me at spam@scientifik.com.
If you're going to drag someone's name through the dirt and attempt to "expose" them with your infinite intelligence and superior sleuthing skills, at least take 2 minutes to visit my site and get my email address correct. |
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Re: The roster (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 31, 2003 @ 18:25:23 UTC | So, get a hobby, get a dog, or at the very least, get a life.
If you've got some sort of problem with any of the people listed above who might or might not be involved with Genesis or any of those people, feel free to ignorantly toss their names around the internet all you like, just leave me out of it.
Oh, c'mon, don't say that. Look how good you are at posting flamebait!
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Re: The roster (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, October 31, 2003 @ 19:18:54 UTC | | John L, Time to rein in your sheep a little. Starting to flirt with some serious legal issues. |
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Re: The roster (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, November 03, 2003 @ 11:35:18 UTC | | People these days are apathetic and pathetic. If you see a couple a people running out of the bank with a bag full of money and you sell them some skimasks...are you liable? What is wrong with this world?!?! Everyone else is to blame....I've never had so many people so concerned about what we do in our spare time...I wonder why? |
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Re: The roster (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, November 03, 2003 @ 14:48:39 UTC | All I got to say is that if the actions of those in this forum are the cause of a REAL breakthrough technology from hitting the market through false or speculative complaints then I am not going to be a happy camper. If they are a legit group trying to bring some energy technologies to market then your efforts are only going to delay the process. tying them up in investigations, and other red tape is not going to help. If it is a real technology I would hope to see some apologies on this forum.
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Re: The roster (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, November 03, 2003 @ 16:36:48 UTC | | Do you honestly believe these discussions on this free forum will have any true impact on something that has the power to change the world...come on. This thing will bring the mighty oil companies and OPEC to there knees yet the 4 people going back and forth here are deemed to have the power to bring this earth shattering technology down. But if you think this is real, I guess you would. JOHN L for President, the most powerful guy on the planet. |
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Re: The roster (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 @ 08:37:06 UTC | | If the guys were only discussing this on this forum then NO you would have no effect. But if you start calling government agencies to spark investigations into GWE then yes you will have an effect, maybe not as extreme as having the government seize the technology but maybe having enough of an effect to delay the progress. But if you start getting government agencies involved then you single handedly allowed them to step in at a much earlier time then if they didn't get false complaints from people who are just trying to dig for information. |
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Re: The roster (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 @ 09:12:09 UTC | | But didn't distinguished dignitaries, senators and other members of our own government already witness the technological marvels of the edison device. |
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You were just saying the military knows about GWE (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 @ 12:49:31 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Just within the last month, you anonymous GWE pumpers were saying that the military approached GWE asking to use their technology to develop a weapon and that GWE turned them down. How can you clowns go from saying that the military endorses your claims to saying that you are worried that the government is going to block the release of your invention in such a short time?
You guys need to have a meeting where you all get your story straight. |
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Re: Pickles hidden agenda? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 @ 13:22:53 UTC | | ...And you need to get a life. Once again Pickle, I ask: Why is it, if you are not an investor and, you feel so strongly this is a scam, do you have such an interest in this product? Why do you care? You can't be just an interested bystander. There must be something you're not telling us. Come clean John or move on. |
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Can't understand why a civilian is in the way? (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 @ 15:56:55 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Career criminals have a hard time with that. But nobody else does. Certainly, your investors don't.
You can't show that your technology works as advertised. You can't show that your business case makes sense, even if the fairies power your devices. You can't show that you've dealt fairly with your investors or the public or anyone. And you've overplayed this for so long, you will have a hard time convinving anyone that you didn't know that these "inventions" are old hat and uneconomical. Did you ever think that the device worked? When did you realize that the "catalyst" was getting used up quickly?
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Re: Pickles hidden agenda? (Score: 1)
by baldy on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 @ 08:39:25 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | | On stockmarket, stock "chat" lines you can block posters that are offensive and do nothing but WASTE time. Please omit or block any further posts to me, of his nonsene and chatter, from the PICKLE. The last post re conversion to propane car engine is just plain irrational, poorly researched and a clear indication of his irrational exuberance and not responsive to the majority of sincere commentators on this site. |
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Think for yourself Baldy (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 @ 12:28:20 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | Genesis doesn't even claim to make a propane car, it's an H2 system for cars. Do you think the engine in your car could run on H2? Why or why not? How much would a new engine cost? Show your work so we can all see how full of hot air you are. |
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Too late to point finger (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Monday, November 03, 2003 @ 18:14:04 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | You just haven't done any of the planning required to point the blame the failure of this "invention" away from yourselves. It will not be enough to convince some of your investors that it's my fault that nobody wants to buy your metal burning Rube Goldberg device, you will have to convince *all* of them. And it wont help you if you convince everyone here either; the investors and the courts aren't going to care what (wolog) Rasta thinks.
Why don't you just come clean? It's not going to get any easier. How did you ever stumble onto this idea? What made you think the "invention" works? When did you realize that it's hopelessly uneconomical? What did you hope to accomplish selling stock in something that nobody would ever want to buy? In publicising it? Maybe you can get a movie deal and pay everyone back.
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Re: Too late to point finger (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 @ 08:47:02 UTC | I don't believe this technology is going to fail. The only person I see paying anyone back is you when you buy a device for your home, and car. Hell, I would make you pay tripple the retail price!!!!
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Then why did you say you are worried it will? (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 @ 13:22:42 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | You just said you were worried that an investigation of these businesses would cause them to fail. Can you try to keep your story straight from one day to the next?
The idea that anybody would retrofit their cars with a H2 conversion kit is just plain stupid. Gasoline costs 5 cents per mile (plus tax). To change out the engine and fuel system of a car would cost more than $10k, even if HICEF's were free and worked (LOL). That's 200k miles worth of gasoline. I am not going to want to drive my car for more than 200k more miles. There is no way to make the NPV work out for that.
Of course, the Edison Device is not much better. Even if the Edison Device worked as advertised (which it doesn't) and cost $3k (which it can't) that plus a 7kW inverter, a battery backup system, and installation will cost about 5X that much. That's more than 10X a typical annual electric bill. That's a long payback period.
Even if the technology were for real, you guys haven't pencilled out sensible business cases for the products you've announced. Even if you had, you have not acted in a straightforward manner with your investors (ever changing story), the public (what investors?), or the government (behind on taxes for a start). And, as you must be aware by now, the technology doesn't work as advertised. "Free" electricity from the Edison Device will end up costing over a dollar per kWh just in "catalyst", making this a poor choice even for someone off-grid who has to pay for an inverter and battery backup anyway, but who has the choice of a much more economical diesel generator.
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Re: Then why did you say you are worried it will? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 @ 20:13:12 UTC | | pickle, you're starting to bore me. |
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Re: Then why did you say you are worried it will? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, November 06, 2003 @ 09:47:30 UTC | Because clowns like you will never stop the inevitable. I love how you pull your statistic crap on a technology that you don't have an iota of a clue as to how it functions. I also didn't say your investigations and false complaints WILL cause the technology to fail, your tunnel vision and desire only to focus on the negative interpreted it that way.
Go take your medication. |
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How the gCell works (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, November 06, 2003 @ 10:07:05 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Anthony has explained a lot about it, and the obvious conclusion is that the gCell burns metal in water, leaving metal oxide and H2 products. I don't know what metal, but there are dozens that would work. My guess is aluminum or sodium, but only because these are well known. So to determine what's the materials cost to get H2 from the gCell, one would simply determine the amount of metal consumed in the reaction. A chemist would just work through the equations to see how much metal ought to be used up, and a statistician would weigh the plates to see how much metal is used up. Anthony didn't do either.
For GWE to recruit licensees, they will need to find a new batch of people who also wont check the plates. |
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Re: How the gCell works (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, November 06, 2003 @ 12:53:32 UTC | Dude, you are forgetting ONE POSSIBILITY!
GWE has stated they are using a catalyist of some kind that helps the water break apart into hydrogen and oxygen with minimal energy.
Could they be using a catalyst that *is* slowly degraded, but is actually a catalyst and NOT being "burnt up" so to speak chemically?
I think there is a difference between being "burnt" and being "used up" as a catalyst.
If they have found a catalyst that is efficent enough to last for 20 years in an edison device it seems to me that it MUST be some sort of catalyst and not just being "burnt".
Is this possible? |
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Not possible, but testable (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, November 06, 2003 @ 14:01:08 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | This is what the investors should be going back and demanding to see, and what the licensees will demand to see, the rate at which the consumables are used up. It shouldn't be difficult, they would just need to didasemble and flush the system, weigh the plates, reassemble it, run it for a couple of days under near full load (if it lasts) and then weigh the plates again.
This "ONE POSSIBILITY" you describe isn't really possible. Possible or not, so far the investors haven't tested for it.
The Edison is not going to last for 20 years. It's not going to last a month under load. This is why GWE can't show the electric bill for the house that's supposed to be using one. Unless that house has been spending hundreds a month on "catalyst", it still buys electricity from the grid. |
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Re: How the gCell works (Score: 1)
by MOTSB on Thursday, November 06, 2003 @ 12:59:51 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | | This is exactly the kind of criticism that I think that the potential licensees need to hear. Tests like these should only strengthen the lincensee's confidence in his own model unit and therefore assist GWE greatly by boosting consumer confidence.....or do you have something else in mind to negate risk/concerns of individuals and institutions in an investment of this type. What kind of liability do you take for a subgrade "production and/or performance" of the retail product to the public? Where is this employment resource building that houses all of the 4500 employees in the Boise area? Have they broken ground on that yet. I would think that something that size would be hard to miss....but what do I know? I'm just the man on the street in boise.. |
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The attacks on Chipotle. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, November 07, 2003 @ 01:33:16 UTC | First of all, I would like to say that I do believe that Chipotle have been very rude. I do not agree with chip's general attitude, but he has made many VERY valid points!
I do NOT know if he is just a super skeptical person or someone with a mission to debunk anything related to free energy, cold fusion, etc.
However, when it comes to GWE I think that the supporters on this board are being TOO NICE to GWE.
Now, don't get me wrong. I still think that there is hope that GWE is legit. What Anthony has told us gives me hope that GWE is legit.
However, I think that there are many, many questions that need to be answered by GWE.
And so far they have answered NONE!
ZIP! ZERO! NADA!
Look, all we REALLY have to go on when it comes to the Edison device is a few posts from Anthony, some pics on their website, and a bunch of facts they have stated with no proof.
I think it is time that GWE releases SOMETHING to prove that the Edison Device is real.
Otherwise, they are playing GAMES with us!
Do you think that Chip is trying to stop the Genesis Device from being released?!
I don't think so! He may be a super skeptical naysayer but TRUST ME if GWE is for real then our government and many other governments KNOW that GWE is for real.
You need to realize that if you have contracts with hundreds of large businesses for the Edison Device and the Hicef technology then THE POWERS THAT BE KNOW!
They are not going to be "giving anything away" by giving us some proof that the Edison Device exists!
GET REAL GUYS AND GIRLS!
Now look, I am not trying to be rude, but it looks like CHIP is the ONLY PERSON ON THIS FORUM doing REAL HOMEWORK when it comes to GWE!
And he is the SKEPTIC FOR GOODNESS SAKES!
If a WORKING FREE ENERGY DEVICE was sold at WalMart for the cost of a cheap Air Conditioner he would just keep on paying his electric bill.
It seems to me that those of us who SUPPORT free energy and so fourth SHOULD BE INVESTIGATING GWE!
Not being rude, not being mean, not doing anything "bad". But peacefully, legally, and nicely investigating them.
Look, if GWE is for real they are going to CHANGE THE WORLD. But if they are NOT telling the truth then they are guilty of THE BIGGEST LIE IN THE HISTORY OF OUR FREE ENERGY COMMUNITY!
They will have been the BIGGEST SCAM EVER IN FREE ENERGY!
Of course I personally, do not THINK they are a scam, and HOPE they are not a scam!
I HOPE they are telling the truth.
But we do not KNOW if they are telling the truth or not.
So I would just like to, for the first time in my life so far, say THANK YOU CHIP!
THANK YOU!
Because YOU are the only person doing REAL HOMEWORK on this board!
Now, I do NOT thank you for some of your rude statements about GWE, some of your accusations, and so fourth. But thank you for your investigative work! |
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Re: The attacks on Chipotle. (Score: 1)
by baldy on Friday, November 07, 2003 @ 09:08:33 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | Edison Device
Projected Purchase Price And Cost Of Operation:
GWE Pricing Policy
GWE is committed to ensuring that consumers and business throughout the world are able to purchase, service and maintain Edison Systems at the lowest possible price, while providing licensed manufactures and marketers with reasonable margins and earnings.
GWE's commitment to reasonable consumer pricing will be achieved through a combination of cost containment policies, taking advantage of volume supply arrangements and through the careful management of competitive strategies. While the laws of each nation may restrict GWE's capability of establishing "maximum" prices that licensees may charge consumers, GWE is capable of quickly increasing competition within areas where prices become unacceptably high.
How To Select The Right Edison System For You
As a rule of thumb, suggested retail prices for Edison Systems are established based on the number of Kilowatt Hours of electricity and Therms of natural gas needed within a 24 hour day. If a consumer or business has no need for gas, Edison Systems that produce only electricity may be purchased.
Calculating Your Needs
The first step in determining the suggested retail price of an Edison System is to calculate the amount of electricity and gas currently being used each day. This is done as follows:
Electricity - To calculate the number of Kilowatt Hours of electricity used per day, simply refer to an electric bill and divide the total number of Kilowatt Hours used during a billing period, by the number of days in the billing period. (Example: 700 kWh [divided by] 30 days = 23.3 kWh per day.)
Gas - To calculate the number of therms of natural gas you use per day, simply refer to your gas bill and divide the total number of therms used during a billing period, by the number of days in the billing period. (Example: 100 therms [divided by] 30 days = 3.3 Therms per day.)
Note: Electricity and gas bills from months where the most electricity and gas are used should be selected.
Calculating Suggested Edison System Retail Prices
Calculating the suggested retail price for an Edison System now becomes a simple matter. The current suggested retail price of electrical production from an Edison System is $112.50 (US) per Kilowatt Hour of daily capacity. The suggested retail price of gas production from an Edison System is $112.50 (US) per Therm of daily capacity.
The formula for calculating the suggested retail price of an Edison System based on the above daily electrical and gas use would be as follows:
23.3 kWh (times) $112.50 = $2625.00 (US)
3.3 kWh (times) $112.50 = $ 375.00 (US)
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Total Edison System Cost: $3000.00 (US)
Based on the above, an Edison System that produces electricity only at the rate of 23.3 kWh per day would cost $2625.00 (US).
Operational Costs
Once an Edison System is purchased, the only costs associated with the system's operation involves the cost of water the system uses as its source of fuel, and the cost of periodically replacing water filters. Since the cost of the water the Edison System uses is negligible, it is too small to consider as an operating expense.
Again, using the above example of an Edison System configuration (producing 23.3 kWh and 3.3 Therms of gas per day) , the cost of operation based on the system purchase price, plus the periodic cost of replacement filters divided by the total amount of of Kilowatt Hours and Therms of gas produced during the system's 20 year projected life would be as follows:
$0.019 (US) per kWh - Electricity
$0.019 (US) per Therm - Gas
Based on this example, the total monthly cost of operation would be approximately $15.00/Month (US).
Note: For the purposes of comparing costs with traditional utility bills, the above cost figures are presented as therms of hydrogen gas as equivalent to therms of natural gas.
Frequently Asked Questions:
Edison Device
Electrical / Gas:
Edison Device
Edison Device Photos
Licensing Information
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Re: The attacks on Chipotle. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, November 07, 2003 @ 10:13:04 UTC | Baldy.. please see:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,102200,00.html |
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This is not how to do capacity planning (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, November 07, 2003 @ 12:39:27 UTC | A home using 24kWh/day is not using 1kW at all times, but often little and sometimes more than 5kW. If you want to balance the load out over the day you need a UPS that costs more than the stated cost of the Edison. The cost calculation leaves the battery backup and inverter system out.
Baldy, you are going to lose $20k on your first installation. And then they are going to call you back in a week when it stops working.
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Re: This is not how to do capacity planning (Score: 1)
by baldy on Friday, November 07, 2003 @ 15:36:38 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | | I took that problem to GWE and they assure me they have a solution to that problem but are not ready to share it with us at this time. It would be real nice if they would just conform their Edison to your specks? If we can do that to will you be more satisfied?Stay tuned! |
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Corrections to cost calculator (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, November 07, 2003 @ 15:07:02 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Thanks to the folks (Baldy and Cage) who posted this in various forums. Lets work from the last calculation up since the last mistakes are smaller and simpler.
They use an example of a $2992.50 system with a "projected" life of 20 years and equate that to a cost of $15 per month. Using a 20 year mortgage calculator: http://www.tcalc.com/tvwww.dll?CalcLoan, and assuming a fixed 8.0% interest rate (darn low) I get $25. To get $15, I have to assume a 1.9% interest rate, which is just too low. So a better estimate is 70% over what they state (this will be cumulative).
A bigger mistake is that they use the average power usage to determine the power required. You have to add up all the devices you might reasonably use at any one time and get enough power for that. For someone who is careful about what they have running, 5kW should be enough. For a person who who has his breadmaker, dryer and dishwasher duke it
out with the AC while he vacuums, it would need to be 2X or 3X that. If we just use 5kW, that would seem to equate to 120 kWh/day, or about 4X what GWE estimates. Now maybe they intend for the Edison to power a rechargeable battery storage system, so the batteries even out the load, but they don't include the cost of those batteries. If we assume they mean for batteries to even things out, they are off by a factor of 2, otherwise, a factor of 4. Also they are leaving out the cost of the inverter, for which I get 6.5k
http://catalog.majorpower.com/products/default.asp?partnumber=MHI-250/5000D&Autosubmit=1
so that's another factor of 2 to add in. So now we have a 70% increase for proper amortization and a 4X-6X for undersizing and missing parts. So assuming the Edison works like they say it does, it's still going to cost 5-10X what they say it will.
But lets go a bit farther. How reasonable is the $112.50 for 1 kWh / day figure? Pricing 1 kW fuel cells at http://www.fuelcellstore.com/cgi-bin/fuelweb/view=subcat/cat=23/subcat=27, I see fuel cells going for over $4k/ kW. GWE seems to be off by another factor of 2 here.
Of course this is all based on the notion that the gCells will last 20 years, which is completely untested, unverified, unsupportable, and unmotivated fantasy. But even if they did, the $15 per month estimate is missing a zero at the end.
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Re: The attacks on Chipotle. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, November 07, 2003 @ 10:20:51 UTC | | You see I don't believe GWE needs to answer anything anyone on this forum asks them. They don't need to prove a damn thing to you or me. They only people they have to prove it to are those licensing the technology. If product does not hit the market next year then I will be convinced that it is BS. If it does then i will buy two of them one to open up and see how it works (if I don't blow myself up first) and the other to get me off the grid. I would imagine that once a licensee has product on the market, there will be demo booths in every home improvement store and every other store that sells appliances. I imagine we will be blasted from every direction with marketing ads from television to radio to billboards to junk mail and spam. I believe half of chipotle's statements are assumptions, others are his own interpretations of the statements made on the GWE website which GWE will not provide anymore information on because they dont HAVE to. We are nobodies to GWE. Just a bunch of people intrested in free energy having conversations on a web forum. I think the only reason Anthony and CK and others posted on this board is because of Chipotle and I thank him for getting their attention. But they didn't need to do it and im sure they are not loosing sleep over Chipotle's comments. Just as long as your efforts do not interupt their business and delaying the answer to the lingering question "are they for real" then im happy. |
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GWE, sour pickles and untaken medication (Score: 1)
by Rastahal on Friday, November 07, 2003 @ 12:17:14 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://truthbells.com | Excellent comments...I totally agree! After reading so many "lopsided" posts on GWE, and getting ANOTHER dose of Mr. Chipotle sans medication, once in a while it suprises the heck out of me that reason still prevails! Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing.
RH |
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Re: Pickles web site (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, November 07, 2003 @ 15:20:44 UTC | | John, Your web site? Why no updates since May? Please answer the question. |
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Not much changed since May. (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, November 07, 2003 @ 15:42:10 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | The licensee candidates still haven't seen anything, so there isn't much to say. The reports from Anthony are worth reposting, and that Charles Shaw quit and gave the domain to Lackey, and that GWE changed its name and incorporated in September. If I am going to bother with an update, I would like a little more to work with. Do you have something you think ought to be written up? |
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Why does GWE post here? (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, November 07, 2003 @ 15:31:54 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | Even the licensees are unimportant. It's only the investors they are putting on a show for here. I do wonder what excuse they have been making not to have any licensees yet when they already have been in production since August. There must be a little impatience, or else there wouldn't be the talk of postponing a dividend till next year to avoid taxes. |
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Re: let's put Pickle on the hot seat! (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, November 07, 2003 @ 15:38:03 UTC | | Since Pickle conveniently avoids the question of his agenda, I think there should be some investigation into his feeble attempts to squash this technology. There is no doubt in my mind this is some type of vendetta John L has with GWE/UFTC & Patrick Kelly. What's the matter John Missed out on a great investment? |
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It's all about me me me (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, November 07, 2003 @ 16:10:17 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | OT - Re: why always Re:?
I never avoid the question. I am simply helping other citizens to avoid being victims. You can't have a decent society if people pass by crimes in progress and assume them to be someone else's problem. And I've been somewhat successful. They haven't sold any stock since the spring. They don't have any licensees. They haven't gotten any mainstream press coverage since spring. Some of their investors are getting impatient with their delays and excuses. They lost Charles Shaw. I like to think I am somewhat responsible for all that.
What I wonder is why you keep trying to make a point of my agenda. I'm really a pretty boring person, and after this scam collapses, it's going to be implausible to blame me for it. And the idea that I criticize GWE only because UFCT wont sell me stock is even sillier than the other ideas that you, Re:, have proposed (that I am a lawyer trying to steal the IP, a competitor trying to reverse engineer it, ...). Are you another investor? Then go right out, call Kelly, and tell him you want to measure how fast the Edison burns the plates in the gCell. Tell him you want to see the electric bill. Then you will have the information in your hands and you will know who is trying to help you and who is not. |
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Re: Why does GWE post here? (Score: 1)
by baldy on Friday, November 07, 2003 @ 15:47:19 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) ) | Pickle I am so interested in your comments about GWE stockholders and dividends past and future. IF there were shareholders, which there are not! One would usually expect that there must be sales from which profits MIGHT flow after a year or so, but wthout sales I would cherish seeing your business plan that finds dividends available before the models are even released from a start up company?
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You ought to read Anthony's posts (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, November 07, 2003 @ 16:21:23 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) )http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | It was Anthony M. (sorry about last name) who told us about the dividend. I agree, it makes no sense to have a dividend before there is revenue, just like it makes no sense to say that they are in production as of August 19th even though they have no licensees. The GWE folks come up with goofy timelines.
But Anthony is one of the shareholders. His posts are all in this thread. I don't agree with everything he reported, but he couldn't have been far from the truth or else the other investors would have corrected him. His description of the Edison device was very detailed, and convinced me that it really has a fuel cell in it, which I hadn't been sure of before that.
There really are shareholders. About 300. All in NJ. Who do you think invented Anthony? |
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Re: You ought to read Anthony's posts (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, November 09, 2003 @ 11:38:46 UTC | | wow!! what a cynic. do you still believe the world is flat? |
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Re: A Passionate Plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy. (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, April 25, 2004 @ 23:51:14 UTC | | I'am sorry to say that this looks good on paper, but electrolysis requires more energy in than comes out. Physics doesn't support the manufacturers claims, becuse there is no known way to get more energy from a reaction than you put into it unless it is exothermic. And electrolysis is not that type of reaction. |
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Re: A Passionate Plea by a good hearted person to Genesis World Energy. (Score: 1)
by daldal on Monday, January 16, 2006 @ 14:43:15 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | Now let me ask you this: Although they do not have the evidence to back up their claims, did you think once that people in this industry would steal the ideas of of the Edison Device? I bet the answer is no. Because people are so self centered about making money yet Genesis Scientific is doing this for the world, not for money. Sure it could have been a hoax and stuff like that but then why would people want to kill the inventor every single day if it werent. I bet you guys are shaking your head wondering why I am defending them, and to be honest, they do want to move forward and they want to save the world from its self distruction, but all we have to do is wait. Think of what they have to go through. The endless nagging and the misconceptions EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING has against them. The benifit of the doubt is all they need. But until they can get their feet off the ground, the evidence must stay hidden. |
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