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    EXODUS: Escape from Earth
    Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 @ 22:53:26 EDT by vlad

    General
    Dr. Jack Sarfatti wrote: Suppose we had a plentiful supply of zero point vacuum energy, you still have to worry about thermodynamics and waste heat and entropy. Global warming will be accelerated by cheap free energy. The world will burn out even faster! You people are not physicists and do not understand that the problem is much more complex than you imagined or possibly can imagine. The problem is too many people in too small a space. Either you kill most of the people or you find a more happy solution.


    The more happy solution is to harness the "dark" "cosmic energy" like General MacArthur commanded at West Point in 1961 in his "Duty, Honor, Country" speech. This will allow us to "part the Red Sea" like a modern-day-Moses, to make huge Star Gates to transport most of Earth's population to virgin Earth-like planets for colonization in "Manifest Destiny" - that's the real story here. It's either that or everyone dies on this choking sputtering planet.
    -------
    Caryn wrote: Now there’s one hell of an assumption!
    Note to me: Must get PhD in physics, so I’m qualified to think and reason.

    ----------
    Jack wrote: Caryn You did not read what I wrote carefully. I am talking about the complex problems of ecology - that a supply of cheap energy will not solve our problem, but will hasten the destruction of the planet because of two factors

    1) over-population
    2) second law of thermodynamics still applies, i.e. dumping of waste heat between two positive temperatures in all engines in use today.

    People like Greer do not understand this.

    (Now one may ask about electric motors, but currents in wires generate
    heat unless we have high Tc superconductors.)
    ------------

    Caryn wrote: These are conventional engines. I think we're all aware that something else is needed. Many of us are also aware that free energy is not going to cure our ills.

    Dan wrote: Amen to that. When will the physics lads learn to think outside of their minuscule box?
    They cannot get beyond internal combustion, even!?
    --------

    Jack wrote: NO YOU DON'T GET THE POINT ABOUT ENGINES! ANY ENGINE AND DEVICES CONNECTED TO IT WILL ULTIMATELY PRODUCE WASTE HEAT AT SOME POINT IN ITS USE. AT SOME POINT YOU NEED TO IRREVERSIBLY "ERASE" and that raises entropy/heat. Six billion people living in this small space at same energy consumption level we "privileged" do will destroy the planet from the waste heat. In any case we don't have the technology and even if we did, practical economics & politics would prevent us from mass-producing enough for everyone to make a difference in time.

    There is one loophole maybe. If you connect a negative temperature to a positive temperature there is no waste heat. All the heat converts to work.?

    Basic heat engine efficiency is

    Work Done/Heat in = (Heat in - Waste Heat out)/Heat in? is limited by 1 - Waste Heat out/Waste Heat in = 1 - Tcold/Thot

    Any negative temperature it turns out is hotter than any positive temperature, therefore in such a quantum "over-unity" engine

    1 - Tcold/Thot = 1 + |Tpositive/Tnegative| > 100%

    That is, heat is sucked out of the cold positive temperature reservoir to get over-unity. If the negative hot temperature works with zero temperature vacuum it's a zero point energy engine as a special case. There is no actual violation of 2nd Law of Thermodynamics - it's a new non-classical regime since quantum theory allows negative temperatures from quantization of energy levels of bound systems.
    -----------

    Caryn wrote: Hearing you loud and clear and I do get it. I come from an engineering family; they make engines.

    You were talking conventional engine; I agreed that something else is required. If we don't have the ability to produce that in time we sure as hell won't be achieving warp-drive and star-gates in time.
    -------------

    Jack wrote: Conventional or unconventional won't make any real difference to this waste heat issue. The issue is that this planet is too damn small for all the billions and billions to live at the same level we do in the richer parts of the world. The only escape fro the worlds poor is

    SMI^2LE

    SPACE MIGRATION through stargate wormholes, otherwise The Reptoids will have a super-harvest with billions and billions of us. Time to get out of Dodge.

    You need to control dark energy at small scales to achieve this. This seems to require the Russian torsion field concept.

    For a quick study in real spacetime physics try this for The Right Stuff!




     
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    "EXODUS: Escape from Earth" | Login/Create an Account | 9 comments | Search Discussion
    The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.

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    Re: EXODUS, Waste Heat (Score: 1)
    by modernsteam on Thursday, March 22, 2007 @ 12:01:26 EDT
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    Thank-you Dr. Jack, for your commentary.

    As a lay-person, I realized from the First Law of Thermodynamics that energy, including heat, has to "go somewhere". Using my high-school physics, I figured if we can't dissipate it by pumping it into space, and counting on it striking a few particles here and there to help relieve us of the heat burden, we have to store it, or convert it (1). As a Free Energy enthusiast, I also have a practical interest in the Earth's environment, but especially our local environment, where we live. So naturally, we're interested in thermal storage in rocks or sand surrounding our home's foundation when we have excess heat (or more appropriately, excessive heat), and accessing it during the cold months (let's just say cool months) to keep warm during our sort of "winter".

    Or we could try to convert it to electricity using new thermoelectric or thermionic technology, such as that from Power Chips of Gibraltor ( if they ever get enough funds to make their prototype), or Eneco. Perhaps we could store that "juice" in the highly promised EEstor capacitor-type "battery", or even a top-of-the-line lithium ion polymer device Or, we could:

    a) use less energy, as a retired electrical engineer acquaintance of mine counselled, he being a non-believer in the possibility of over-unity energy in any case

    b) escape, as you recommend, if we can get the technology down pat in time

    c) pray for a mini ice-age to take care of the heat

    Hal Ade
    Gatineau, QC.

    (1) Could we also convert the excess heat to gasoline, which I understand has a fantastic energy density by volume, if we can find enough carbon to do that, and without depleting our oxygen supply? Of course, it would have to be stored securely because of its being a fire hazard.

    H.A.




    Re: EXODUS: Escape from Earth (Score: 1)
    by malc on Friday, March 23, 2007 @ 00:43:34 EDT
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://web.ukonline.co.uk/mripley
    Here's a puzzle. If you could produce a wormhole how would you get the end point to appear where you want it to?  Surely you would have to have something at the other end to "link" to. In which case the amount of time taken to get "whatever" to the other end is the same as travelling through space. Even converging laser beams(!) would take too long.




    Re: EXODUS: Escape from Earth (Score: 1)
    by 7ical on Friday, March 23, 2007 @ 04:23:30 EDT
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    I read somewhere that if we mulitply our total energy needs by a factor 100, then this total amount of energy equals 1% of the heat (from the sun) that reaches earth.
    So where is the problem?



    Re: EXODUS: Escape from Earth (Score: 1)
    by Koen on Friday, March 23, 2007 @ 07:00:34 EDT
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://no.nl/tesla
    As a scientist  Jack should know that Solar Cells  are one of the few technical approaches that do not have this "waste heat" disadvantage:  most of the solar light is converted into heat anyway at the earth surface.  If we capture solar light first, and do something useful with it,  then eventually solar light is again converted into heat, which makes no difference.

    Secondly, Jack does not have faith in menkind (too many people, need for killing of the majority, bla bla).  The same dr. Jack  has a theory (a faith) about cosmic conscience (sort of cosmic feedback cycle). He should reverse all this: be certain about cosmic consciousness , and have faith in menkind.

    Using ZPE is a much better option for the time being than gas/oil/coal anyway.  The heat-pollution problem should be addressed by developing energy efficient technology. The earth radiates away a lot of heat energy continuously, and all we should do is to limit human heat production such that it is small compared to the natural energy balance.  This problem is tiny  compared to the loss of ecosystems and animal/plant species (this is the real danger). Only diverse ecosystems are healthy. Monocultures are very vulnerable to diseases.

    Leaving "Dodge" is not the answer either, even if we can. If we overpopulate and pollute our own planet, we will do so on other habitable planets (if we can find one in the first place). Natural birth control (based on deep understanding of the human purpose on earth, and not based on enforced laws) should become reality.





    Re: EXODUS: Escape from Earth (Score: 1)
    by nrgfree on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 @ 01:47:02 EDT
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070215181109.htm

    "Scientists Convert Heat To Power Using Organic Molecules, May Lead To New Energy Source"

    Putting the pieces together... it looks like there is the means to convert the excess heat to electricity, so the runoff of the waste heat via thermodynamics would actually create more electricty.  Please comment.




     

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